Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

[Heat3]

Bulls won two titles on memorable three point shots by Paxson and Kerr. Both plays started with Jordan deferring to his teammates.

Chalmers hit one of the GOAT shots in NCAA history and hit many big shots in the NBA. If he was open I have no doubt MJ would pass him the ball too.

[greg4012]

Read on Twitter

We know he sucks but it seems he may have more value than we think, get it done Patrick!!!

The key here is its scouts being asked that question. If it was GM you would see the complete opposite because they have to factor salary. Thats why scouts are scouts and GMs are GMs.

That’s actually the rub with Cam Thomas. Anyone trading for him needs to sign him to a big contract to get any of the value out of him.

[twix2500]

Barring a trade for a star I think the Heat are gonna build the roster around Rozier, Butler, Jaquez Jr, Jovic and Bam being the starting lineup.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Beenie]

Alondes Williams hopefully gets some run next year

He’s got some Cam Thomas in his game

[twix2500]

Alondes Williams hopefully gets some run next year

He’s got some Cam Thomas in his game

Can Williams run point or is he a natural wing?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Beenie]

Alondes Williams hopefully gets some run next year

He’s got some Cam Thomas in his game

Can Williams run point or is he a natural wing?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Averaged 7.3 assists in 27 G league games this past season.

But also committed 4.3 turnovers.

From what I’ve seen, he has score first mentality but can execute nifty passes here n there.

Perhaps they play him like how they played Gabe couple years ago as an off the bench spark.

[ZoStrong]

Barring a trade for a star I think the Heat are gonna build the roster around Rozier, Butler, Jaquez Jr, Jovic and Bam being the starting lineup.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I'm actually fine w that to start the season n see how they gel. I'm fine w Herro as the 6th man too. And see who shakes loose during the season. No need to rush into bad or mediocre trades.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Lebron is on roids

and just because he's playing at 40 doesn't make his peak greater than MJ's

like what.

I hate the fact that we have MJ's jersey displayed in the rafters at the Heat stadium, but as a child of the 90s who witnessed his second three-peat, I firmly believe he's the GOAT. LeBron's losses in 2011, 2014, and against the Warriors are etched in my memory, making it impossible for me to rank him above MJ. Given the choice, I'd trust Jordan to take the last shot for my life over LeBron without hesitation.

really? thats your only reason

because all I have to do is watch game tape to clearly see who is better.

nevermind the fact MJ craps all over him in accolades and accomplishments in a shorter amount of time.


lebron doesnt belong in GOAT conversations. the discussion is ridiculous. he never once dominated the league. never. his 2009 MVP was a sham because it should have gone to Dwayne Wade. at what point was lebron just dominating the nba? never happened. MJ dominated the league. Shaq dominated the league for a short time. Jokic is dominating the league now. Lebron, never.

he got some cheap easy rings by stacking teams, while averaging 26~ppg for 20 years and avoiding injury.

his post up game is suspect
his pull up jumper is trash

During the big 3 era, before Wade's knees caught up to him, lebron was exposed as the 2nd best player on the Heat, after Wade. We all know it.

and his drives to the basket wouldn't work in MJ's era, when bigs actually waited in the paint... before they instituted the defensive 3 second rule in 2001. lebron would just pass it back out because he is not a dominant scorer. whereas MJ was.

Holy fuxk these are some terrible takes

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Alondes Williams hopefully gets some run next year

He’s got some Cam Thomas in his game

Please god no, you all have been brainwashed. Stop putting your hopes in these undrafted guys.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bulls won two titles on memorable three point shots by Paxson and Kerr. Both plays started with Jordan deferring to his teammates.

Chalmers hit one of the GOAT shots in NCAA history and bit many big shots in the NBA. If he was open I have no doubt MJ would pass him the ball too.

They don’t like the truth

[Beenie]

Alondes Williams hopefully gets some run next year

He’s got some Cam Thomas in his game

Please god no, you all have been brainwashed. Stop putting your hopes in these undrafted guys.

For one, if Mia makes a major move like the one that you’re hoping for, they’re gonna need to have cheap contributors off their bench.

For two, major move or not, the type of role Williams would likely have would be limited to an occasional off the bench scoring spark initially with the hopes of him developing into a bigger contributor ie vincent.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

I hate the fact that we have MJ's jersey displayed in the rafters at the Heat stadium, but as a child of the 90s who witnessed his second three-peat, I firmly believe he's the GOAT. LeBron's losses in 2011, 2014, and against the Warriors are etched in my memory, making it impossible for me to rank him above MJ. Given the choice, I'd trust Jordan to take the last shot for my life over LeBron without hesitation.

really? thats your only reason

because all I have to do is watch game tape to clearly see who is better.

nevermind the fact MJ craps all over him in accolades and accomplishments in a shorter amount of time.


lebron doesnt belong in GOAT conversations. the discussion is ridiculous. he never once dominated the league. never. his 2009 MVP was a sham because it should have gone to Dwayne Wade. at what point was lebron just dominating the nba? never happened. MJ dominated the league. Shaq dominated the league for a short time. Jokic is dominating the league now. Lebron, never.

he got some cheap easy rings by stacking teams, while averaging 26~ppg for 20 years and avoiding injury.

his post up game is suspect
his pull up jumper is trash

During the big 3 era, before Wade's knees caught up to him, lebron was exposed as the 2nd best player on the Heat, after Wade. We all know it.

and his drives to the basket wouldn't work in MJ's era, when bigs actually waited in the paint... before they instituted the defensive 3 second rule in 2001. lebron would just pass it back out because he is not a dominant scorer. whereas MJ was.

strange way to say MJ would not defer to Mario Chalmers with the series on the line.....

this is just one more reason why MJ is MJ

before MJ, it was "the right basketball play"

then MJ came, and said, nah, im a 10x scoring champion, 7 of those in a row. I am skilled and dominant enough to win this. give me the ball and iso and i got you. and he even retired his magical career doing exactly that, to seal his 6th ring.

an entire generation of ISO players in the 2000s and 2010s tried to emulate MJ and failed.

he's on another level entirely and yes it matters.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Bulls won two titles on memorable three point shots by Paxson and Kerr. Both plays started with Jordan deferring to his teammates.

Chalmers hit one of the GOAT shots in NCAA history and hit many big shots in the NBA. If he was open I have no doubt MJ would pass him the ball too.

yeah, but MJ also did the iso hero ball to win titles too. he was a threat for anything, which is why he was unstoppable.

lebron hasn't, because he can't. lebron plays within the flow of the game.

he is very stoppable, and you know you can make him pass the ball out because he isn't offensively skilled enough to will points when team needs. he plays within flow of game. that's fine. but he's not on MJ's level.

in 2016, it was kyrie who took Curry 1on1 and drained the 3.

i mean, even JIMMY outplayed lebron in 2020 finals for goodness sake. Jimmy was the more clutch player. I still feel the Heat could have won the 2020 Finals if Goran and Bam didn't have crap luck. Imagine Lebron's legacy with that 2020 Finals loss to Jimmy. That is what almost happened if not for injuries.


this is all so obvious You would NEVER hear that of MJ. Never. Even when he lost, he was still the best player on the floor

[AirP.]

Been looking around for scorers who aren't scoring 20 a night in the NBA but are on a pace to score at least 20 points per 36 with a minimum 500 minutes played this year this year ordered by their points per 36. The top 2 per36 scorers in this list are Sexton and Witmore. Some other interesting names that could be gettable would be Mo Wagner, J.Smith, GG Jackson II and Lonnie Walker IV.

Code: Select all

+------------------+---+--------+----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+----+-----+----+----+---------+
|Player            |Age|Position|Team|MPG |TSPCT|FGA |PPG |PP36|APG|RPG |3pt% |ORTG|DRTG|NetRating|
+------------------+---+--------+----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+----+-----+----+----+---------+
|Collin Sexton     |25 |SG      |UTA |26.6|0.607|13.3|18.7|25.3|4.9|2.6 |0.394|122 |123 |-1       |
|Cam Whitmore      |19 |SF      |HOU |18.7|0.561|9.9 |12.3|23.7|0.7|3.8 |0.359|109 |113 |-4       |
|Myles Turner      |27 |C       |IND |27  |0.626|11.8|17.1|22.8|1.3|6.9 |0.358|120 |115 |5        |
|Immanuel Quickley |24 |SG      |NYK |24  |0.598|11.2|15  |22.5|2.5|2.6 |0.395|123 |117 |6        |
|Jalen Green       |21 |SG      |HOU |31.7|0.541|16.2|19.6|22.3|3.5|5.2 |0.332|107 |115 |-8       |
|RJ Barrett        |23 |SG      |NYK |29.5|0.536|14.9|18.2|22.3|2.4|4.3 |0.331|110 |116 |-6       |
|Moritz Wagner     |26 |C       |ORL |17.7|0.676|6.9 |10.9|22.1|1.2|4.3 |0.33 |126 |112 |14       |
|Jalen Williams    |22 |PF      |OKC |31.3|0.621|14  |19.1|21.9|4.5|4   |0.427|122 |114 |8        |
|Franz Wagner      |22 |SF      |ORL |32.5|0.575|15.2|19.7|21.9|3.7|5.3 |0.281|116 |112 |4        |
|Jonathan Kuminga  |21 |PF      |GSW |26.3|0.598|11.6|16.1|21.9|2.2|4.8 |0.321|117 |116 |1        |
|Klay Thompson     |33 |SF      |GSW |29.7|0.576|14.7|17.9|21.7|2.3|3.3 |0.387|113 |118 |-5       |
|Alec Burks        |32 |SG      |DET |21  |0.581|9.4 |12.6|21.6|1.6|2.6 |0.401|118 |121 |-3       |
|Malik Monk        |25 |SG      |SAC |26  |0.564|12.4|15.4|21.3|5.1|2.9 |0.35 |113 |117 |-4       |
|Devin Vassell     |23 |SG      |SAS |33.1|0.578|15.5|19.5|21.2|4.1|3.8 |0.372|113 |118 |-5       |
|Jordan Poole      |24 |SG      |WAS |30.1|0.529|15.2|17.4|20.8|4.4|2.7 |0.326|102 |121 |-19      |
|Jalen Smith       |23 |C       |IND |17.2|0.682|6.5 |9.9 |20.7|1  |5.5 |0.424|133 |117 |16       |
|Dalano Banton     |24 |PG      |POR |29.2|0.508|15  |16.7|20.6|3.6|4.8 |0.311|103 |117 |-14      |
|Scottie Barnes    |22 |SG      |TOR |34.9|0.566|15.7|19.9|20.5|6.1|8.2 |0.341|114 |116 |-2       |
|Bam Adebayo       |26 |C       |MIA |34  |0.576|14.3|19.3|20.4|3.9|10.4|0.357|115 |109 |6        |
|GG Jackson II     |19 |PF      |MEM |25.7|0.554|11.7|14.6|20.4|1.2|4.1 |0.357|107 |117 |-10      |
|T.J. McConnell    |31 |PG      |IND |18.2|0.586|8.4 |10.2|20.3|5.5|2.7 |0.409|121 |117 |4        |
|Bobby Portis      |28 |PF      |MIL |24.5|0.581|11.2|13.8|20.3|1.3|7.4 |0.407|115 |113 |2        |
|Mikal Bridges     |27 |SF      |BRK |34.8|0.56 |15.8|19.6|20.3|3.6|4.5 |0.372|112 |118 |-6       |
|Jordan Clarkson   |31 |SG      |UTA |30.6|0.521|14.8|17.1|20.2|5  |3.4 |0.294|107 |124 |-17      |
|Chet Holmgren     |21 |C       |OKC |29.4|0.632|11.6|16.5|20.2|2.4|7.9 |0.37 |122 |108 |14       |
|Lonnie Walker IV  |25 |SG      |BRK |17.4|0.545|8.5 |9.7 |20.1|1.3|2.2 |0.384|105 |117 |-12      |
|Immanuel Quickley |24 |PG      |TOR |33.3|0.564|14.7|18.6|20.1|6.8|4.8 |0.395|117 |120 |-3       |
|Zach LaVine       |28 |SG      |CHI |34.9|0.578|15  |19.5|20.1|3.9|5.2 |0.349|113 |118 |-5       |
|Naz Reid          |24 |C       |MIN |24.2|0.595|10.5|13.5|20  |1.3|5.2 |0.414|111 |107 |4        |
|Bennedict Mathurin|21 |SF      |IND |26.1|0.562|11.2|14.5|20  |2  |4   |0.374|110 |121 |-11      |
|Bogdan Bogdanović |31 |SG      |ATL |30.4|0.569|13.9|16.9|20  |3.1|3.4 |0.374|116 |120 |-4       |
|Khris Middleton   |32 |SF      |MIL |27  |0.595|11.7|15.1|20  |5.3|4.7 |0.381|115 |116 |-1       |
+------------------+---+--------+----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+----+-----+----+----+---------+


[HeatFan_NC]

Bulls won two titles on memorable three point shots by Paxson and Kerr. Both plays started with Jordan deferring to his teammates.

Chalmers hit one of the GOAT shots in NCAA history and hit many big shots in the NBA. If he was open I have no doubt MJ would pass him the ball too.

yeah, but MJ also did the iso hero ball to win titles too. he was a threat for anything, which is why he was unstoppable.

lebron hasn't, because he can't. lebron plays within the flow of the game.

he is very stoppable, and you know you can make him pass the ball out because he isn't offensively skilled enough to will points when team needs. he plays within flow of game. that's fine. but he's not on MJ's level.

in 2016, it was kyrie who took Curry 1on1 and drained the 3.

i mean, even JIMMY outplayed lebron in 2020 finals for goodness sake. Jimmy was the more clutch player. I still feel the Heat could have won the 2020 Finals if Goran and Bam didn't have crap luck. Imagine Lebron's legacy with that 2020 Finals loss to Jimmy. That is what almost happened if not for injuries.


this is all so obvious You would NEVER hear that of MJ. Never. Even when he lost, he was still the best player on the floor

MJ is the GOAT. He was the greatest in the greatest era of basketball. I was just thinking a few days ago: if these guys today who aren't as skilled as the guys in MJ's prime are getting paid 50-60 mil per year, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK MJ, Barkley, Malone, Reggie, Isiah, the Admiral, Aguire, Ewing, etc would make if they played in this era??? Those guys were way more skilled than today's players. They were fundamentally sound in multiple facets of the game and knew how to play. Today's guys might be able to shoot, but can't dribble. Might be able to dribble, but can't defend or facilitate. Might be able to defend but can't rebound.

MJ WAS DOMINANT IN A DOMINANT ERA OF BASKETBALL...

[greg4012]

Been looking around for scorers who aren't scoring 20 a night in the NBA but are on a pace to score at least 20 points per 36 with a minimum 500 minutes played this year this year ordered by their points per 36. The top 2 per36 scorers in this list are Sexton and Witmore. Some other interesting names that could be gettable would be Mo Wagner, J.Smith, GG Jackson II and Lonnie Walker IV.

Code: Select all

+------------------+---+--------+----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+----+-----+----+----+---------+
|Player            |Age|Position|Team|MPG |TSPCT|FGA |PPG |PP36|APG|RPG |3pt% |ORTG|DRTG|NetRating|
+------------------+---+--------+----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+----+-----+----+----+---------+
|Collin Sexton     |25 |SG      |UTA |26.6|0.607|13.3|18.7|25.3|4.9|2.6 |0.394|122 |123 |-1       |
|Cam Whitmore      |19 |SF      |HOU |18.7|0.561|9.9 |12.3|23.7|0.7|3.8 |0.359|109 |113 |-4       |
|Myles Turner      |27 |C       |IND |27  |0.626|11.8|17.1|22.8|1.3|6.9 |0.358|120 |115 |5        |
|Immanuel Quickley |24 |SG      |NYK |24  |0.598|11.2|15  |22.5|2.5|2.6 |0.395|123 |117 |6        |
|Jalen Green       |21 |SG      |HOU |31.7|0.541|16.2|19.6|22.3|3.5|5.2 |0.332|107 |115 |-8       |
|RJ Barrett        |23 |SG      |NYK |29.5|0.536|14.9|18.2|22.3|2.4|4.3 |0.331|110 |116 |-6       |
|Moritz Wagner     |26 |C       |ORL |17.7|0.676|6.9 |10.9|22.1|1.2|4.3 |0.33 |126 |112 |14       |
|Jalen Williams    |22 |PF      |OKC |31.3|0.621|14  |19.1|21.9|4.5|4   |0.427|122 |114 |8        |
|Franz Wagner      |22 |SF      |ORL |32.5|0.575|15.2|19.7|21.9|3.7|5.3 |0.281|116 |112 |4        |
|Jonathan Kuminga  |21 |PF      |GSW |26.3|0.598|11.6|16.1|21.9|2.2|4.8 |0.321|117 |116 |1        |
|Klay Thompson     |33 |SF      |GSW |29.7|0.576|14.7|17.9|21.7|2.3|3.3 |0.387|113 |118 |-5       |
|Alec Burks        |32 |SG      |DET |21  |0.581|9.4 |12.6|21.6|1.6|2.6 |0.401|118 |121 |-3       |
|Malik Monk        |25 |SG      |SAC |26  |0.564|12.4|15.4|21.3|5.1|2.9 |0.35 |113 |117 |-4       |
|Devin Vassell     |23 |SG      |SAS |33.1|0.578|15.5|19.5|21.2|4.1|3.8 |0.372|113 |118 |-5       |
|Jordan Poole      |24 |SG      |WAS |30.1|0.529|15.2|17.4|20.8|4.4|2.7 |0.326|102 |121 |-19      |
|Jalen Smith       |23 |C       |IND |17.2|0.682|6.5 |9.9 |20.7|1  |5.5 |0.424|133 |117 |16       |
|Dalano Banton     |24 |PG      |POR |29.2|0.508|15  |16.7|20.6|3.6|4.8 |0.311|103 |117 |-14      |
|Scottie Barnes    |22 |SG      |TOR |34.9|0.566|15.7|19.9|20.5|6.1|8.2 |0.341|114 |116 |-2       |
|Bam Adebayo       |26 |C       |MIA |34  |0.576|14.3|19.3|20.4|3.9|10.4|0.357|115 |109 |6        |
|GG Jackson II     |19 |PF      |MEM |25.7|0.554|11.7|14.6|20.4|1.2|4.1 |0.357|107 |117 |-10      |
|T.J. McConnell    |31 |PG      |IND |18.2|0.586|8.4 |10.2|20.3|5.5|2.7 |0.409|121 |117 |4        |
|Bobby Portis      |28 |PF      |MIL |24.5|0.581|11.2|13.8|20.3|1.3|7.4 |0.407|115 |113 |2        |
|Mikal Bridges     |27 |SF      |BRK |34.8|0.56 |15.8|19.6|20.3|3.6|4.5 |0.372|112 |118 |-6       |
|Jordan Clarkson   |31 |SG      |UTA |30.6|0.521|14.8|17.1|20.2|5  |3.4 |0.294|107 |124 |-17      |
|Chet Holmgren     |21 |C       |OKC |29.4|0.632|11.6|16.5|20.2|2.4|7.9 |0.37 |122 |108 |14       |
|Lonnie Walker IV  |25 |SG      |BRK |17.4|0.545|8.5 |9.7 |20.1|1.3|2.2 |0.384|105 |117 |-12      |
|Immanuel Quickley |24 |PG      |TOR |33.3|0.564|14.7|18.6|20.1|6.8|4.8 |0.395|117 |120 |-3       |
|Zach LaVine       |28 |SG      |CHI |34.9|0.578|15  |19.5|20.1|3.9|5.2 |0.349|113 |118 |-5       |
|Naz Reid          |24 |C       |MIN |24.2|0.595|10.5|13.5|20  |1.3|5.2 |0.414|111 |107 |4        |
|Bennedict Mathurin|21 |SF      |IND |26.1|0.562|11.2|14.5|20  |2  |4   |0.374|110 |121 |-11      |
|Bogdan Bogdanović |31 |SG      |ATL |30.4|0.569|13.9|16.9|20  |3.1|3.4 |0.374|116 |120 |-4       |
|Khris Middleton   |32 |SF      |MIL |27  |0.595|11.7|15.1|20  |5.3|4.7 |0.381|115 |116 |-1       |
+------------------+---+--------+----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+----+-----+----+----+---------+


Jalen Smith would be an excellent 3rd big in Miami’s rotation.

Indy has a crowded frontcourt and Obi Toppins offense is getting prioritized there. Would love to somehow get him on the Heat

[Kobewade11]

Atl ended up in the top 4 wild

#1 pick

[HeatIn5]

Wow, Hawks getting a #1 pick - will be interesting to see the direction they go

[AirP.]

A year without a clear-cut franchise level talent. There's been rumblings that some teams have talked about trading out of the top of the draft because they think the rookie contracts are too high for the talent they can get. If Miami wants a high draft pick, it's possible to trade up to get it if they really want.

Their first-year salaries...

#1 10.1 mil
#2 9 mil
#3 8.1 mil
#4 7.3 mil
#5 6.6 mil

[HeatIn5]

A year without a clear-cut franchise level talent. There's been rumblings that some teams have talked about trading out of the top of the draft because they think the rookie contracts are too high for the talent they can get. If Miami wants a high draft pick, it's possible to trade up to get it if they really want.

Their first-year salaries...

#1 10.1 mil
#2 9 mil
#3 8.1 mil
#4 7.3 mil
#5 6.6 mil

Would you do something like Herro to Utah for #10 overall and then 10 and 15 for something in the 3-5 range?
I don't know if it's worth it