Cavs and Pelicans balance their rosters

[BK_2020]

Cleveland send:
Darius Garland (36.7), Jarrett Allen (20), Strus (15), Levert (16)

Pelicans send:
Brandon Ingram (36), CJ McCollum (33), Herb Jones (13) plus 2024 1st and Lakers pick

Cleveland send the Garland/ Allen pair, opting to build around Mitchell/Mobley. Ingram and Herb Jones fill the size and shooting in the wings they desperately need. CJ slides into secondary perimeter creator role he had in Portland.

Mobley - Herb Jones - Ingram - Mitchell - CJ or
go big with Mobley - Dean Wade - Ingram - Herb - Mitchell

Pelicans upgrade interior defense and don't have to pay Jonas V. $20+ mil to be average. They would like a center who can do all that and also shoot the three but that's not really a realistic goal. Garland gives them a young PG who despite a down year was one of the best playmakers and lob throwers at one point. Garland to Zion connection will be fire. Herb Jones to Strus is a downgrade defensively but the Pelicans have Trey Murphy ready to step into the starting 3 role so it's a hit they can take to upgrade at 5 and shore up the 1 spot for their long-term future.

Garland - Strus/Levert - Trey - Zion - Allen
Dyson Daniels or Hawkins might be ready to step into the starting 2 role

[jbk1234]

I'm pretty sure the Cavs get much better value by trading Allen and Garland separately. I don’t see a way the Pelicans turn CJ into Garland without Murphy.

[psman2]

I got this one pick too much from NOP. And I know Allen has been rumored to go to NOP, but I would pass on him. Rather wait for the right fit that pay full price for the wrong one.

[Smooth32]

Ironically, the role players around each team's core (Mitchell and Mobley; Zion and Murphy) compliment the other team's core better.

Swap Strus out for Niang and Jerome, and think it's a pretty solid deal.

Garland for Ingram and Allen + LeVert for McCollum and Jones is pretty close to being fairish in my eyes, so the Cavs getting off some salary (Niang) and getting some draft capital back helps to even it out.

[DowJones]

I got this one pick too much from NOP. And I know Allen has been rumored to go to NOP, but I would pass on him. Rather wait for the right fit that pay full price for the wrong one.

Yeah, I think it is one NO first too many. I really don't want to give up Strus. Cleveland probably keeps Okoro and tries like hell to make him the starting 2.

Mitchell
Okoro
Ingram
Jones
Mobley

That is a really, really good defensive team but you need Okoro to develop more as a shooter. I know he shot 39% from 3 this season, but it dropped to 26% in the playoffs and there were times teams just didn't guard him. Okoro is just 23, and he is a really elite defensive player with toughness and grit, so there is some upside. The bench gets a boost with CJ. CJ-Merrill-Wade is a nice start to a productive bench.

I might like the fit for NO better.

Garland
Strus
Murphy
Zion
Allen

That is a really good and balanced starting 5.

[psman2]

I got this one pick too much from NOP. And I know Allen has been rumored to go to NOP, but I would pass on him. Rather wait for the right fit that pay full price for the wrong one.

Yeah, I think it is one NO first too many. I really don't want to give up Strus. Cleveland probably keeps Okoro and tries like hell to make him the starting 2.

Mitchell
Okoro
Ingram
Jones
Mobley

That is a really, really good defensive team but you need Okoro to develop more as a shooter. I know he shot 39% from 3 this season, but it dropped to 26% in the playoffs and there were times teams just didn't guard him. The bench gets a boost with CJ. CJ-Merrill-Wade is a nice start to a productive bench.

I might like the fit for NO better.

Garland
Strus
Murphy
Zion
Allen

That is a really good and balanced starting 5.

I think there are 3rd team versions spinning off CJ with Cleveland keeping Strus. I didn't have either of them paramount to the overall trade here.

Do you really think a Zion/Allen frontcourt in this modern version of the NBA can have real success?

[jbk1234]

I got this one pick too much from NOP. And I know Allen has been rumored to go to NOP, but I would pass on him. Rather wait for the right fit that pay full price for the wrong one.

Yeah, I think it is one NO first too many. I really don't want to give up Strus. Cleveland probably keeps Okoro and tries like hell to make him the starting 2.

Mitchell
Okoro
Ingram
Jones
Mobley

That is a really, really good defensive team but you need Okoro to develop more as a shooter. I know he shot 39% from 3 this season, but it dropped to 26% in the playoffs and there were times teams just didn't guard him. The bench gets a boost with CJ. CJ-Merrill-Wade is a nice start to a productive bench.

I might like the fit for NO better.

Garland
Strus
Murphy
Zion
Allen

That is a really good and balanced starting 5.

That Cavs team is substantially worse. Our spacing is abysmal and we downgrade at multiple positions for a SF we'll have to overpay to keep (assuming he's even open to re-signing) and a $30M 6th man.

[BK_2020]

I got this one pick too much from NOP. And I know Allen has been rumored to go to NOP, but I would pass on him. Rather wait for the right fit that pay full price for the wrong one.

Yeah, I think it is one NO first too many. I really don't want to give up Strus. Cleveland probably keeps Okoro and tries like hell to make him the starting 2.

Mitchell
Okoro
Ingram
Jones
Mobley

That is a really, really good defensive team but you need Okoro to develop more as a shooter. I know he shot 39% from 3 this season, but it dropped to 26% in the playoffs and there were times teams just didn't guard him. The bench gets a boost with CJ. CJ-Merrill-Wade is a nice start to a productive bench.

I might like the fit for NO better.

Garland
Strus
Murphy
Zion
Allen

That is a really good and balanced starting 5.

That Cavs team is substantially worse. Our spacing is abysmal and we downgrade at multiple positions for a SF we'll have to overpay to keep (assuming he's even open to re-signing) and a $30M 6th man.

If you go with CJ and Mitchell backcourt (doable because Herb Jones and Ingram have elite size), you have a shooter at every position except C.

[DowJones]

I got this one pick too much from NOP. And I know Allen has been rumored to go to NOP, but I would pass on him. Rather wait for the right fit that pay full price for the wrong one.

Yeah, I think it is one NO first too many. I really don't want to give up Strus. Cleveland probably keeps Okoro and tries like hell to make him the starting 2.

Mitchell
Okoro
Ingram
Jones
Mobley

That is a really, really good defensive team but you need Okoro to develop more as a shooter. I know he shot 39% from 3 this season, but it dropped to 26% in the playoffs and there were times teams just didn't guard him. The bench gets a boost with CJ. CJ-Merrill-Wade is a nice start to a productive bench.

I might like the fit for NO better.

Garland
Strus
Murphy
Zion
Allen

That is a really good and balanced starting 5.

That Cavs team is substantially worse. Our spacing is abysmal and we downgrade at multiple positions for a SF we'll have to overpay to keep (assuming he's even open to re-signing) and a $30M 6th man.

You and I just disagree about how good the current construction of the Cleveland Cavaliers is. I would argue that you are higher on this starting 5 than any Cavalier fan on this board, and much higher than the Cleveland front office. I really like each player individually, but collectively there are fit issues that make them worse than the individual parts. I personally think plugging Jones in at the 4 and moving Mobley to the 5 makes Cleveland a better team. I know you don't agree. I am less certain on swapping Garland for Ingram--I still think Garland and Mitchell can "work" together--but if Garland is really unhappy then I am not sure anything changes next year.

I am concerned about starting Okoro and Jones together. I guess it depends on how the front office thinks Okoro can develop as a consistent shooter. He has made strides, but I wouldn't be against them rejecting this hypothetical trade.

[DowJones]

Yeah, I think it is one NO first too many. I really don't want to give up Strus. Cleveland probably keeps Okoro and tries like hell to make him the starting 2.

Mitchell
Okoro
Ingram
Jones
Mobley

That is a really, really good defensive team but you need Okoro to develop more as a shooter. I know he shot 39% from 3 this season, but it dropped to 26% in the playoffs and there were times teams just didn't guard him. The bench gets a boost with CJ. CJ-Merrill-Wade is a nice start to a productive bench.

I might like the fit for NO better.

Garland
Strus
Murphy
Zion
Allen

That is a really good and balanced starting 5.

That Cavs team is substantially worse. Our spacing is abysmal and we downgrade at multiple positions for a SF we'll have to overpay to keep (assuming he's even open to re-signing) and a $30M 6th man.

If you go with CJ and Mitchell backcourt (doable because Herb Jones and Ingram have elite size), you have a shooter at every position except C.

I don't have a problem with playing CJ and Mitchell together more in the right matchup but I think you start the 23 year old Okoro at his natural position (SG) for the first time and try like crazy to develop him. I love the defensive intensity that a Mitchell-Okoro-Ingram-Jones-Mobley starting 5 can bring. 3 of those 5 are elite, Mitchell has it in him to defend when the playoffs start, and Ingram has the length needed to be an effective defender.

[jbk1234]

That Cavs team is substantially worse. Our spacing is abysmal and we downgrade at multiple positions for a SF we'll have to overpay to keep (assuming he's even open to re-signing) and a $30M 6th man.

If you go with CJ and Mitchell backcourt (doable because Herb Jones and Ingram have elite size), you have a shooter at every position except C.

I don't have a problem with playing CJ and Mitchell together more in the right matchup but I think you start the 23 year old Okoro at his natural position (SG) for the first time and try like crazy to develop him. I love the defensive intensity that a Mitchell-Okoro-Ingram-Jones-Mobley starting 5 can bring. 3 of those 5 are elite, Mitchell has it in him to defend when the playoffs start, and Ingram has the length needed to be an effective defender.

Outside of Sexton, no Cavs player has been the beneficiary of more unearned minutes than Okoro. When Mitchell and Strus went out in early March, Okoro got to play SG. When Mitchell went down in Games 4 & 5, Okoro got to play SG. I've seen more than enough. If the Cavs don't extend the Q.O., I suspect he's taking a pay cut.

That Cavs roster is substantially worse than the one the Cavs currently have. I'm not even sure they could score enough to finish in the top 6 team in the East. Honestly, I think you're underrating the trade value Allen and Garland have by a considerable amount.There are reports that several teams have Garland rated higher than Trae and are ready to make good offers if Mitchell extends

[Mrakar]

I'm pretty sure the Cavs get much better value by trading Allen and Garland separately. I don’t see a way the Pelicans turn CJ into Garland without Murphy.

Murphy has more value then Garland, and i would say by quite a margin.
Its not CJ for Garland, or u think Allen is worth Ingram, Herb and 2 1st rounders?

As Pels fan i wouldnt do this. Herb has to stay, add more picks and Dyson instead.

[tester551]

Murphy has more value then Garland, and i would say by quite a margin.

As an outsider, I'm sure how/why you came to this conclusion.

[jbk1234]

I'm pretty sure the Cavs get much better value by trading Allen and Garland separately. I don’t see a way the Pelicans turn CJ into Garland without Murphy.

Murphy has more value then Garland, and i would say by quite a margin.
Its not CJ for Garland, or u think Allen is worth Ingram, Herb and 2 1st rounders?

As Pels fan i wouldnt do this. Herb has to stay, add more picks and Dyson instead.

What I think is the Cavs don't have to trade with the Pelicans. There are 28 other teams in the NBA. Griffin has wanted Allen for over a year which is why we're even having this conversation.

I'm more than happy to trade Garland elsewhere, assuming we trade him at all given that Mitchell's signature is not yet on an extension. I'm more than happy to not have Ingram, a player the Pelicans don't want to pay and who won't be back after this season. I really don't want to take McCollum back and waste $30M on a 6th man. Let the Pelicans figure out what to do with him.

[toooskies]

Murphy has more value then Garland, and i would say by quite a margin.

As an outsider, I'm sure how/why you came to this conclusion.

I mean, I get it. Murphy is a volume shooter with great efficiency and the lowest turnover percentage in the league. He probably has a higher ceiling than Garland due to his size, and he won't ever be a bad fit. He's got more team control left.

I still have Garland as a better and more valuable player today, and I'd definitely want Murphy in the package coming back if I'm trading Garland AND Allen.

[Mrakar]

Murphy has more value then Garland, and i would say by quite a margin.

As an outsider, I'm sure how/why you came to this conclusion.

Garland has 160 milions contract over next 4 years. Murphys extension will be around 115/120 milions and years will come later when the cap number is bigger.
Garland hasnt justified his contract at all right now.
15/6/3.5 for such a contract will not cut it. I will not even mention his defense...
If anyone here is its....

[jbk1234]

Murphy has more value then Garland, and i would say by quite a margin.

As an outsider, I'm sure how/why you came to this conclusion.

Garland has 160 milions contract over next 4 years. Murphys extension will be around 115/120 milions and years will come later when the cap number is bigger.
Garland hasnt justified his contract at all right now.
15/6/3.5 for such a contract will not cut it. I will not even mention his defense...
If anyone here is its....

If Murphy is that good, for what reason would he extend for less than 25% of the cap?

[Mrakar]

As an outsider, I'm sure how/why you came to this conclusion.

Garland has 160 milions contract over next 4 years. Murphys extension will be around 115/120 milions and years will come later when the cap number is bigger.
Garland hasnt justified his contract at all right now.
15/6/3.5 for such a contract will not cut it. I will not even mention his defense...
If anyone here is its....

If Murphy is that good, for what reason would he extend for less than 25% of the cap?

Because he was injured at the start of the year, and was comming of the bench whole year. His production will go up with his minutes and role.

[jbk1234]

Garland has 160 milions contract over next 4 years. Murphys extension will be around 115/120 milions and years will come later when the cap number is bigger.
Garland hasnt justified his contract at all right now.
15/6/3.5 for such a contract will not cut it. I will not even mention his defense...
If anyone here is its....

If Murphy is that good, for what reason would he extend for less than 25% of the cap?

Because he was injured at the start of the year, and was comming of the bench whole year. His production will go up with his minutes and role.

Right, so why is he signing an extension (which he hasn't done yet) for half of what he'll likely end up making if he waits a year?

[Mrakar]

If Murphy is that good, for what reason would he extend for less than 25% of the cap?

Because he was injured at the start of the year, and was comming of the bench whole year. His production will go up with his minutes and role.

Right, so why is he signing an extension (which he hasn't done yet) for half of what he'll likely end up making if he waits a year?

If he waits it can to both ways. Pelicans will know better what they have. They will for sure not throw money for a player that is underpreforming if that is the case(Cavs werent so lucky).