Cle / Min

[JJ_PR]

Cleveland gets: Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid and Mike Conley
Minnesota gets: Darius Garland and Ty Jerome

Why?
Cleveland adds size and depth.
Minnesota gets their point guard of the future and shaves significant salary.

[life_saver]

I think this trade does makes sense for both parties (Wolves need a long term PG solution) but I do think it depends on what happens in G7..if Wolves win G7, then I think they will most likely run it back. But I am also skeptical of Wolves having 4 max contracts on roster..if they are doing a trade like this, then I think they might also make few other trades to tweak the roster..probably moving KAT.

Also do remember that Conley has no trade clause as part of extension. Conley signed extension for a team-friendly deal of 2 yrs $19M ($9.5M per year which is relatively a bargain) but also got no trade clause as part of this.

[JJ_PR]

I think this trade does makes sense for both parties but I do think it depends on what happens in G7..if Wolves win G7, then I think they will most likely run it back. But I am also skeptical of Wolves having 4 max contracts on roster..if they are doing a trade like this, then I think they might also make few other trades to tweak the roster..probably moving KAT.

Also do remember that Conley has no trade clause as part of extension. Conley signed extension for a team-friendly deal of 2 yrs $19M but also got no trade clause as part of this.

I had no clue. Thanks for sharing.

[life_saver]

I think this trade does makes sense for both parties but I do think it depends on what happens in G7..if Wolves win G7, then I think they will most likely run it back. But I am also skeptical of Wolves having 4 max contracts on roster..if they are doing a trade like this, then I think they might also make few other trades to tweak the roster..probably moving KAT.

Also do remember that Conley has no trade clause as part of extension. Conley signed extension for a team-friendly deal of 2 yrs $19M but also got no trade clause as part of this.

I had no clue. Thanks for sharing.

yeah..Conley likes in MN and my guess is he most probably wants to finish his career in MN. That's why the extension he signed was lower than what he'd have gotten in open market and probably got the No trade clause due to signing for a team-friendly deal

[Wolveswin]

Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult.

[timeaftertime]

There's zero chance the Wolves do this. They'd be giving up three rotation players for a single rotation player and I'm not sure Garland is even much better than McDaniels in terms of raw value. They'd have four max players and would either need to go chase a big wing (with almost no resources) this summer or start NAW and have a three guard, two center lineup (starting three guys under 6'6" and dramatically reducing their length on the perimeter). Garland also doesn't fit the Wolves identity at all and part of the reason they're able to play defense so hard is their depth, which this move would absolutely torpedo.

[babyjax13]

I think this trade does makes sense for both parties but I do think it depends on what happens in G7..if Wolves win G7, then I think they will most likely run it back. But I am also skeptical of Wolves having 4 max contracts on roster..if they are doing a trade like this, then I think they might also make few other trades to tweak the roster..probably moving KAT.

Also do remember that Conley has no trade clause as part of extension. Conley signed extension for a team-friendly deal of 2 yrs $19M but also got no trade clause as part of this.

I had no clue. Thanks for sharing.

yeah..Conley likes in MN and my guess is he most probably wants to finish his career in MN. That's why the extension he signed was lower than what he'd have gotten in open market and probably got the No trade clause due to signing for a team-friendly deal

Conley still has a home in Columbus so I actually think if he were to approve a trade it would be to Cleveland!

[tidho]

There's zero chance the Wolves do this. They'd be giving up three rotation players for a single rotation player and I'm not sure Garland is even much better than McDaniels in terms of raw value. They'd have four max players and would either need to go chase a big wing (with almost no resources) this summer or start NAW and have a three guard, two center lineup (starting three guys under 6'6" and dramatically reducing their length on the perimeter). Garland also doesn't fit the Wolves identity at all and part of the reason they're able to play defense so hard is their depth, which this move would absolutely torpedo.

I'm guessing you're correct. I think the value is off.

If they would do it, the Conley no trade clause should be an easy decision - he must know if he wants to play with Mitchell or not.

[life_saver]

Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult.

hmm I don't neccessarily see it that way. Obviously this deal might involve some picks (Cavs maybe adding a FRP ?) but in terms of players part of the trade, I think this can address Wolves long term PG solution which is a big need long term, especially with Conley already being super old and will likely have more injury/availablity issues going forward. Naz is likely gonna leave in 2025 anyways.
Jaden is an excellent defender but I feel like it's easier to find a 3&D guy (who can provide 60-70% of Jaen's impact) than a long term PG. Garland's is young but his value isn't high right now...its a good time to buy him low if Wolves lose G7 and want to shake up things a bit

[Wolveswin]

Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult.

hmm I don't neccessarily see it that way. Obviously this deal might involve some picks (Cavs maybe adding a FRP ?) but in terms of players part of the trade, I think this can address Wolves long term PG solution which is a big need long term, especially with Conley already being super old and will likely have more injury/availablity issues going forward. Naz is likely gonna leave in 2025 anyways.
Jaden is an excellent defender but I feel like it's easier to find a 3&D guy (who can provide 60-70% of Jaen's impact) than a long term PG. Garland's is young but his value isn't high right now...its a good time to buy him low if Wolves lose G7 and want to shake up things a bit

Cavs don’t have any picks to trade and 2031 1st 8x drafts away do nothing for win-now Wolves.

McDaniels vs. Garland is a close value discussion. No way is Garland a Reid (and Conley) more than McDaniels.

Trade is DOA.

[Wolveswin]

Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult.

hmm I don't neccessarily see it that way. Obviously this deal might involve some picks (Cavs maybe adding a FRP ?) but in terms of players part of the trade, I think this can address Wolves long term PG solution which is a big need long term, especially with Conley already being super old and will likely have more injury/availablity issues going forward. Naz is likely gonna leave in 2025 anyways.
Jaden is an excellent defender but I feel like it's easier to find a 3&D guy (who can provide 60-70% of Jaen's impact) than a long term PG. Garland's is young but his value isn't high right now...its a good time to buy him low if Wolves lose G7 and want to shake up things a bit

Ok, how about this counter offer:

McDaniels + Reid + Conley

FOR

Garland + Mobley + Jerome

If needed, Wolves add 1st or two (same 2031 Cavs have to offer).

[Texas Chuck]

Here we go with silly counter season. You cannot think adding Mobley to the OP is the correct fix. And saying maybe adding a first or two as if you honestly believe its not necessary.

I realize everyone overvalues their own guys. And loves to dream of fantasy trades where what the other team wants doesn't matter nor does value. But at some point for this board to serve any purpose we really have to cut back on intentionally posting like that.

I mean its a board policy for a reason. I don't want to issue warnings. I jsut want you guys to think about the intent of this board and save the fantasy stuff for the fan sites.

[toooskies]

Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult.

Do you have a super-high value on McDaniels or a super-low value on Garland?

McDaniels' shooting, rebounding, passing, and blocked shots all regressed this year. Minnesota's defense was six points per 100 possessions better with him off the court. He's got a -0.4 EPM, a negative VORP, and the win share numbers of a below-average player. Obviously stats don't catch everything, but he is also going to be paid quality starter money.

I don't know the circumstances surrounding all of that and can only assume there's important context around all those stats. Just like there's context behind Garland's regression this year. But McDaniels looks way overpaid for his production.

What has me considering this deal is how well Naz Reid would fit with Mobley, Allen, or both. I was pretty high on him last year before Minnesota extended him and thought that the bigs could really use a guy who'd could outplay one of them on any given night.

Garland for Jaden and Naz is actually neutral money and I'd be okay with leaving Conley for Jerome out of the deal, possibly adding NAW, McLaughlin, or a Monte Morris S&T instead.

[life_saver]

Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult.

hmm I don't neccessarily see it that way. Obviously this deal might involve some picks (Cavs maybe adding a FRP ?) but in terms of players part of the trade, I think this can address Wolves long term PG solution which is a big need long term, especially with Conley already being super old and will likely have more injury/availablity issues going forward. Naz is likely gonna leave in 2025 anyways.
Jaden is an excellent defender but I feel like it's easier to find a 3&D guy (who can provide 60-70% of Jaen's impact) than a long term PG. Garland's is young but his value isn't high right now...its a good time to buy him low if Wolves lose G7 and want to shake up things a bit

Ok, how about this counter offer:

McDaniels + Reid + Conley

FOR

Garland + Mobley + Jerome

If needed, Wolves add 1st or two (same 2031 Cavs have to offer).

Adding Mobley is not realistic. Garland had a down year but in the prior 2 seasons he averaged 22/8 on decent efficiency

[LightTheBeam]

I'm with Wolveswin and I'm actually a Garland fan. Young wings with his size, contract, and defense are very very hard to come by. Scoring guards on big contracts are easier to find.

I could see an argument they are worth similar amounts, but Naz/Conley is definitely overkill.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm with Wolveswin and I'm actually a Garland fan. Young wings with his size, contract, and defense are very very hard to come by. Scoring guards on big contracts are easier to find.

I could see an argument they are worth similar amounts, but Naz/Conley is definitely overkill.

Deal definitely favors Cleveland. Just not by a factor of Mobley.

[life_saver]

I am a Wolves fan and definitely would consider a trade like this if it involves a FRP and if Wolves lose G7. I haven't watched ton of Garland other than playoffs and few RS games but looking at the numbers, he seems to have a down-year this time but averaged 22/8 on decent efficiency in prior 2 seasons. Dude is still quite young and is a decent playmaker. For me, finding a young PG to pair with Ant will solve lot of long term issues for Wolves and here you have an option to get that guy without selling farm. Its hard to find decent PGs, especially when you do not have lot of high draft picks.

Jaden is an excellent defender and he does have some offensive potential but his shot is still quite inconsistent. It would be easier to find a replacement for Jaden who can provide impact of 70-80% of what Jaden can provide rather than finding a young PG to pair with Ant. Every season, you will see few cases of teams finding decent 3 & D guys on minimum contracts but its hard to find a decent young PGs. Naz is most likely gonna leave in 2025 anyways...Wolves can't afford him on his next contract.

[LightTheBeam]

I'm with Wolveswin and I'm actually a Garland fan. Young wings with his size, contract, and defense are very very hard to come by. Scoring guards on big contracts are easier to find.

I could see an argument they are worth similar amounts, but Naz/Conley is definitely overkill.

Deal definitely favors Cleveland. Just not by a factor of Mobley.

Didn't even see his 2nd post, was referring to his first one -

"Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult."

Lol ya I would agree this isn't a Mobley away

[life_saver]

Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult.

Do you have a super-high value on McDaniels or a super-low value on Garland?

McDaniels' shooting, rebounding, passing, and blocked shots all regressed this year. Minnesota's defense was six points per 100 possessions better with him off the court. He's got a -0.4 EPM, a negative VORP, and the win share numbers of a below-average player. Obviously stats don't catch everything, but he is also going to be paid quality starter money.

I don't know the circumstances surrounding all of that and can only assume there's important context around all those stats. Just like there's context behind Garland's regression this year. But McDaniels looks way overpaid for his production.

What has me considering this deal is how well Naz Reid would fit with Mobley, Allen, or both. I was pretty high on him last year before Minnesota extended him and thought that the bigs could really use a guy who'd could outplay one of them on any given night.

Garland for Jaden and Naz is actually neutral money and I'd be okay with leaving Conley for Jerome out of the deal, possibly adding NAW, McLaughlin, or a Monte Morris S&T instead.

Wolves fans are typically high on Jaden than other teams fans. Part of the reason is due to his inconsistencies on offensive end. I wouldn't just go by raw numbers for Jaden though. He definitely has ability for being more than just a C&S guy on offense but he is still not there yet. I don't think he can ever become a All-star level player on offense due to his handle but I think he still has more potential on offensive end than what he has been able to show so far. He is usually 4th option on offense or even 5th option sometimes...so he just doesn't get enough touches. Even our coach constantly mentions how a barometer of how good our offense is dependent on how Jaden performs..he feels Jaden plays well when team has ball movement and Jaden gets more touches. Jaden still had like 2-3 20+ pt games in this playoffs

Defensively, he usually always guards opposition's best guard/wing, one of the best screen navigators in the league despite being 6'10. Also provides good weakside rim protection. His rebounding numbers can be lot better but I do think since he is always typically guarding opposition's best perimeter threat, it does affect his rebounding numbers

[toooskies]

Call me a homer, but I think value is way off.

I wouldn’t trade McDaniels for Garland. Full stop. Their value is probably close, adding Reid and Conley is an insult.

Do you have a super-high value on McDaniels or a super-low value on Garland?

McDaniels' shooting, rebounding, passing, and blocked shots all regressed this year. Minnesota's defense was six points per 100 possessions better with him off the court. He's got a -0.4 EPM, a negative VORP, and the win share numbers of a below-average player. Obviously stats don't catch everything, but he is also going to be paid quality starter money.

I don't know the circumstances surrounding all of that and can only assume there's important context around all those stats. Just like there's context behind Garland's regression this year. But McDaniels looks way overpaid for his production.

What has me considering this deal is how well Naz Reid would fit with Mobley, Allen, or both. I was pretty high on him last year before Minnesota extended him and thought that the bigs could really use a guy who'd could outplay one of them on any given night.

Garland for Jaden and Naz is actually neutral money and I'd be okay with leaving Conley for Jerome out of the deal, possibly adding NAW, McLaughlin, or a Monte Morris S&T instead.

Wolves fans are typically high on Jaden than other teams fans. Part of the reason is due to his inconsistencies on offensive end. I wouldn't just go by raw numbers for Jaden though. He definitely has ability for being more than just a C&S guy on offense but he is still not there yet. I don't think he can ever become a All-star level player on offense due to his handle but I think he still has more potential on offensive end than what he has been able to show so far. He is usually 4th option on offense or even 5th option sometimes...so he just doesn't get enough touches. Even our coach constantly mentions how a barometer of how good our offense is dependent on how Jaden performs..he feels Jaden plays well when team has ball movement and Jaden gets more touches. Jaden still had like 2-3 20+ pt games in this playoffs

Defensively, he usually always guards opposition's best guard/wing, one of the best screen navigators in the league despite being 6'10. Also provides good weakside rim protection. His rebounding numbers can be lot better but I do think since he is always typically guarding opposition's best perimeter threat, it does affect his rebounding numbers

Alright, so my evaluation of being a longer Isaac Okoro is even better. It all tracks.

But no one on the Cavs think Okoro is anywhere close to Garland's value.