Can the Lakers get some 3+D guys and compete?

[Ell Curry]

Listening to Bill Simmons' podcast and him writing off LeBron winning a title with the Lakers, but before that, he talked about how they won in 2020 and it struck me that maybe LeBron and AD could win one, because when I watch the Lakers, I'm really struck by how terrible the supporting cast is at basically every part of basketball except Reaves' on the ball and Taurean Prince's 8th man backup 3+D work.

Hachimura and D-Lo can shoot (normally) but they are truly annoying, bad IQ, losing players who have not found ways to really exploit what LeBron and AD do offensively and defensively. And Lebron's defensive mistakes all look mental and also a result of having to cover too much space and bad perimeter defenders (and the league evolving to make power forwards who aren't traditional small forwards mostly obsolete).

If you add any 2 of say Norm Powell, Caleb Martin and Van Vleet to this team, they'd be immeasurably better. Whereas you add Zach Lavine and you're still not getting any stops.

So yeah, a thread for Lakers trades if they want to try to replicate 2020. Some guys available for draft picks and even swaps or Lewis or Hood-Schiffino in the case of less valuable guys:

2nds and Hood-Schiffo range:
Kris Dunn - Great defender, has actually started shooting the 3 okay but on real low volume, so why not see if he can take 6-7 per 36 instead of 4? They don't have anything resembling a dog on defence on the perimeter to even annoy a Murray or SGA for 20 minutes.

A swap maybe:
Grimes - Only getting 15 minutes in Detroit and they might well draft or sign an SG, like Malik Monk or Gary Trent Jr.

A real pick:
Brogdon - He can still play and he's actually smart which would be a neat wrinkle for a Lakers guard post-Caruso.

Finney-Smith - Would give them a physical frontcourt, similar to Dunn you're acknowledging you're an underdog and hoping you can get some hot 3pt shooting in a series or 2.

Moody - Young guy who hasn't had minutes and I think he's more active than someone like Hachimura. Still young enough to have his breakout into a solid starter. Warriors would do this to move the draft pick most likely to add to a package to get a starter.

[R-DAWG]

There is a lot t unpack here. First being, that when this team was designed in the offseason Jared Vanderbilt and Gabe Vincent had big roles. Vando would have started and covered the more difficult front court matchup and Vincent was a 3 and D guard off the bench - likely in closing lineups as well. Frankly, I don’t think we ever saw the anticipated closing lineup of Vincent-Reaves-Vando-James-Davis.

Not saying the roster doesn’t have other issues, but those two guys basically missing the entire season had an impact.

The bigger question with the Lakers is will Lebron leave money on the table to better position the team to improve. If Lebron opts in, the Lakers only have about 16mm below the 2nd apron to improve the roster (assuming DLo opts in) and only 10 roster spots filled. Enough room to use the taxpayer MLE and fill out the roster with minimums. But if Lebron were to go down to 25mm per year, that opens up the non taxpayer MLE and room to bring back Tauren Prince with bird rights.

The Lebron issue is a bigger issue as he’s going to want the Lakers to mortgage the future for the present.

[Texas Chuck]

The Lebron issue is a bigger issue as he’s going to want the Lakers to mortgage the future for the present.

You say this like its a negative. Right now they have Lebron/AD. They should absolutely try and win if they can with these guys. Worrying about the team after that is pointless. They will be terrible. Except....this is the Lakers and they know assets or no assets, they are always a star destination. One of these current young superstars is going to fed up with not being able to win with their current team and choose LA. Maybe 2 of them will.

But even if they can't lure a star, you still try and win now. Saving assets so you can feel better drafting 7th thinking that's going to save you and not giving yourself a chance with Lebron/AD is the wrong path. Unless you are just convinced they are washed. But you can't trade Lebron and trading AD is a half measure.

[mg]

Yes of course the Lakers should try to improve and try to compete for a title next season. AD/Lebron have been enough to keep them in these Denver games as the Lakers to this point have been leading all of them at the half despite being down 0-3. The Nuggets obviously have the better roster but the Lakers easily could've taken 1-2 of these games if they had any type of production from their roleplayers. The Mavs were able to greatly improve this season by making a few strategic personnel moves. The Lakers could do the same and will have assets including tradable picks this offseason to improve the roster.

[R-DAWG]

The Lebron issue is a bigger issue as he’s going to want the Lakers to mortgage the future for the present.

You say this like its a negative. Right now they have Lebron/AD. They should absolutely try and win if they can with these guys. Worrying about the team after that is pointless. They will be terrible. Except....this is the Lakers and they know assets or no assets, they are always a star destination. One of these current young superstars is going to fed up with not being able to win with their current team and choose LA. Maybe 2 of them will.

But even if they can't lure a star, you still try and win now. Saving assets so you can feel better drafting 7th thinking that's going to save you and not giving yourself a chance with Lebron/AD is the wrong path. Unless you are just convinced they are washed. But you can't trade Lebron and trading AD is a half measure.

I should have expanded my thought. I think the conversation between the lakers and Lebron needs to be a conversation about him giving the team flexibility under the 1st apron if they are going to go all in with their future picks.

I’m sure the Lakers would throw everything on the table to get a guy like Mitchell - who could pair with AD for the next 3-5 years. But I think you need more commitment from Lebron before doing another trade with the picks for anything but a star.

[Ell Curry]

The Lebron issue is a bigger issue as he’s going to want the Lakers to mortgage the future for the present.

You say this like its a negative. Right now they have Lebron/AD. They should absolutely try and win if they can with these guys. Worrying about the team after that is pointless. They will be terrible. Except....this is the Lakers and they know assets or no assets, they are always a star destination. One of these current young superstars is going to fed up with not being able to win with their current team and choose LA. Maybe 2 of them will.

But even if they can't lure a star, you still try and win now. Saving assets so you can feel better drafting 7th thinking that's going to save you and not giving yourself a chance with Lebron/AD is the wrong path. Unless you are just convinced they are washed. But you can't trade Lebron and trading AD is a half measure.

I should have expanded my thought. I think the conversation between the lakers and Lebron needs to be a conversation about him giving the team flexibility under the 1st apron if they are going to go all in with their future picks.

I’m sure the Lakers would throw everything on the table to get a guy like Mitchell - who could pair with AD for the next 3-5 years. But I think you need more commitment from Lebron before doing another trade with the picks for anything but a star.

Let's assume the deal is something like Reaves, Russell and basically all the picks and swaps, since Cleveland could then move the picks for a 3 and throw out Garland-Reaves-SF-Mobley-Allen with Russell in his correct role as a 6th man and Okoro and Niang as backup 4s, Mobley is the backup 5 -

I sort of think Mitchell-LeBron-AD and 2 schlubs like Hachimura and Vincent or an MLE 3+D guy would still struggle to get enough stops.

[R-DAWG]

You say this like its a negative. Right now they have Lebron/AD. They should absolutely try and win if they can with these guys. Worrying about the team after that is pointless. They will be terrible. Except....this is the Lakers and they know assets or no assets, they are always a star destination. One of these current young superstars is going to fed up with not being able to win with their current team and choose LA. Maybe 2 of them will.

But even if they can't lure a star, you still try and win now. Saving assets so you can feel better drafting 7th thinking that's going to save you and not giving yourself a chance with Lebron/AD is the wrong path. Unless you are just convinced they are washed. But you can't trade Lebron and trading AD is a half measure.

I should have expanded my thought. I think the conversation between the lakers and Lebron needs to be a conversation about him giving the team flexibility under the 1st apron if they are going to go all in with their future picks.

I’m sure the Lakers would throw everything on the table to get a guy like Mitchell - who could pair with AD for the next 3-5 years. But I think you need more commitment from Lebron before doing another trade with the picks for anything but a star.

Let's assume the deal is something like Reaves, Russell and basically all the picks and swaps, since Cleveland could then move the picks for a 3 and throw out Garland-Reaves-SF-Mobley-Allen with Russell in his correct role as a 6th man and Okoro and Niang as backup 4s, Mobley is the backup 5 -

I sort of think Mitchell-LeBron-AD and 2 schlubs like Hachimura and Vincent or an MLE 3+D guy would still struggle to get enough stops.

If your the Lakers and you can get Mitchell you get Mitchell. Mitchell fits with Lebron/AD and AD/Mitchell keeps you a playoff team post Lebron.

I keep coming back to Lebron taking less money to keep the MLE in play and Tauren Prince on the roster.

Vincent/Mitchell/Vando/James/Davis
Prince/Rui/Non Taxpayer MLE

That’s a true big 3 and an 8 deep supporting cast

[Ell Curry]

If your the Lakers and you can get Mitchell you get Mitchell. Mitchell fits with Lebron/AD and AD/Mitchell keeps you a playoff team post Lebron.

I keep coming back to Lebron taking less money to keep the MLE in play and Tauren Prince on the roster.

Vincent/Mitchell/Vando/James/Davis
Prince/Rui/Non Taxpayer MLE

That’s a true big 3 and an 8 deep supporting cast

I just don't see that kind of perimeter rotation and spacing winning 4 rounds.

You'd need to find at least a Pat Beverley out of nowhere like the Rockets did and even then, I think the lack of useful 2-way wings would put a 2nd round type ceiling on the team.

[scoobs07]

Isn't this guy JHS a better defender than Dlo and Reaves? I think he has a shot to be a solid contributor next season. With that being said, Lakers could look to shore up perimeter defense/shooting with a Mitchell trade and/or free agent signing for D'Anthony Melton, Miles Bridges, or Gary Trent Jr.

[DowJones]

You say this like its a negative. Right now they have Lebron/AD. They should absolutely try and win if they can with these guys. Worrying about the team after that is pointless. They will be terrible. Except....this is the Lakers and they know assets or no assets, they are always a star destination. One of these current young superstars is going to fed up with not being able to win with their current team and choose LA. Maybe 2 of them will.

But even if they can't lure a star, you still try and win now. Saving assets so you can feel better drafting 7th thinking that's going to save you and not giving yourself a chance with Lebron/AD is the wrong path. Unless you are just convinced they are washed. But you can't trade Lebron and trading AD is a half measure.

I should have expanded my thought. I think the conversation between the lakers and Lebron needs to be a conversation about him giving the team flexibility under the 1st apron if they are going to go all in with their future picks.

I’m sure the Lakers would throw everything on the table to get a guy like Mitchell - who could pair with AD for the next 3-5 years. But I think you need more commitment from Lebron before doing another trade with the picks for anything but a star.

Let's assume the deal is something like Reaves, Russell and basically all the picks and swaps, since Cleveland could then move the picks for a 3 and throw out Garland-Reaves-SF-Mobley-Allen with Russell in his correct role as a 6th man and Okoro and Niang as backup 4s, Mobley is the backup 5 -

I sort of think Mitchell-LeBron-AD and 2 schlubs like Hachimura and Vincent or an MLE 3+D guy would still struggle to get enough stops.

That is the Mitchell trade I had in mind for Cleveland except Rui would need to replace DLO. I don't think DLO picks up that player option, but even if he did, Cleveland has no real need for him. Rui fits a role in Cleveland.

[MessiahUjiri]

Is Gabe Vincent cooked?

If DLo opts in, they probably ship him out ASAP.


Resign Dinwiddie to a 1+1 PO for the vet min.
Maybe trade Rui for Bruce Brown?
Get Vando back healthy next year.

Resign Lebron and use the TPMLE on a vet PG.

[Ell Curry]

I should have expanded my thought. I think the conversation between the lakers and Lebron needs to be a conversation about him giving the team flexibility under the 1st apron if they are going to go all in with their future picks.

I’m sure the Lakers would throw everything on the table to get a guy like Mitchell - who could pair with AD for the next 3-5 years. But I think you need more commitment from Lebron before doing another trade with the picks for anything but a star.

Let's assume the deal is something like Reaves, Russell and basically all the picks and swaps, since Cleveland could then move the picks for a 3 and throw out Garland-Reaves-SF-Mobley-Allen with Russell in his correct role as a 6th man and Okoro and Niang as backup 4s, Mobley is the backup 5 -

I sort of think Mitchell-LeBron-AD and 2 schlubs like Hachimura and Vincent or an MLE 3+D guy would still struggle to get enough stops.

That is the Mitchell trade I had in mind for Cleveland except Rui would need to replace DLO. I don't think DLO picks up that player option, but even if he did, Cleveland has no real need for him. Rui fits a role in Cleveland.

Yeah, they could probably move Niang for a similar level of player at guard (a guy you don't want playing more than 10-15 minutes) and plug Rui into his spot.

[jbk1234]

I should have expanded my thought. I think the conversation between the lakers and Lebron needs to be a conversation about him giving the team flexibility under the 1st apron if they are going to go all in with their future picks.

I’m sure the Lakers would throw everything on the table to get a guy like Mitchell - who could pair with AD for the next 3-5 years. But I think you need more commitment from Lebron before doing another trade with the picks for anything but a star.

Let's assume the deal is something like Reaves, Russell and basically all the picks and swaps, since Cleveland could then move the picks for a 3 and throw out Garland-Reaves-SF-Mobley-Allen with Russell in his correct role as a 6th man and Okoro and Niang as backup 4s, Mobley is the backup 5 -

I sort of think Mitchell-LeBron-AD and 2 schlubs like Hachimura and Vincent or an MLE 3+D guy would still struggle to get enough stops.

That is the Mitchell trade I had in mind for Cleveland except Rui would need to replace DLO. I don't think DLO picks up that player option, but even if he did, Cleveland has no real need for him. Rui fits a role in Cleveland.

I mean we've got plenty of role players sucking in the playoffs currently already. I think we have Rui's role covered.

[DowJones]

Let's assume the deal is something like Reaves, Russell and basically all the picks and swaps, since Cleveland could then move the picks for a 3 and throw out Garland-Reaves-SF-Mobley-Allen with Russell in his correct role as a 6th man and Okoro and Niang as backup 4s, Mobley is the backup 5 -

I sort of think Mitchell-LeBron-AD and 2 schlubs like Hachimura and Vincent or an MLE 3+D guy would still struggle to get enough stops.

That is the Mitchell trade I had in mind for Cleveland except Rui would need to replace DLO. I don't think DLO picks up that player option, but even if he did, Cleveland has no real need for him. Rui fits a role in Cleveland.

I mean we've got plenty of role players sucking in the playoffs currently already. I think we have Rui's role covered.

Come on JBK, not every Cavs trade over here deserves snark/hate. Rui would be replacing Niang and he is MUCH better than Niang.

Rui in the playoffs: 12ppg on 55% shooting and 49% from 3
Niang in the playoffs: 5ppg on 40% shooting and 36% from 3

I agree that Rui has not been good in these first 4 games, but you have to agree that he is a much better player than Niang. Niang should not be a rotation player in the NBA Playoffs. Rui clearly is. That is why I say he would fill a role in Cleveland and that is why I would want him over DLO in a hypothetical trade for Donovan Mitchell.

[jbk1234]

That is the Mitchell trade I had in mind for Cleveland except Rui would need to replace DLO. I don't think DLO picks up that player option, but even if he did, Cleveland has no real need for him. Rui fits a role in Cleveland.

I mean we've got plenty of role players sucking in the playoffs currently already. I think we have Rui's role covered.

Come on JBK, not every Cavs trade over here deserves snark/hate. Rui would be replacing Niang and he is MUCH better than Niang.

Rui in the playoffs: 12ppg on 55% shooting and 49% from 3
Niang in the playoffs: 5ppg on 40% shooting and 36% from 3

I agree that Rui has not been good in these first 4 games, but you have to agree that he is a much better player than Niang. Niang should not be a rotation player in the NBA Playoffs. Rui clearly is. That is why I say he would fill a role in Cleveland and that is why I would want him over DLO in a hypothetical trade for Donovan Mitchell.

Rui got played off the floor against Denver last year as well. Yes, he's been better than Niang. Every player to get post season minutes has been better than Niang in the playoffs. That Mo/Issac lineup has been absolutely killing Mobley/Niang every time they've hit the floor and Mosley is in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

But in a thread where you have Lakers fans saying Rui isn't enough of a two-way player to get minutes in the playoffs, you may want to take a step back and reflect on that because you're the only one assigning him any actual trade value on his contract.

Personally, I have DFS as considerably better than Rui and comparable to Reaves. I have Cam Johnson as a more useful player off the bench than Rui, particularly in a playoff series. If neither of them are two-way players, give me the guy who is a good off-ball player who can come in and drop 15 in 10 minutes on the other team. Where the rubber meets the road for me is if you're trading Mitchell for role players and/or bench players, then you better be getting some picks with high upside that convey within a couple years. The Nets have those. The Lakers do not.

[DowJones]

I mean we've got plenty of role players sucking in the playoffs currently already. I think we have Rui's role covered.

Come on JBK, not every Cavs trade over here deserves snark/hate. Rui would be replacing Niang and he is MUCH better than Niang.

Rui in the playoffs: 12ppg on 55% shooting and 49% from 3
Niang in the playoffs: 5ppg on 40% shooting and 36% from 3

I agree that Rui has not been good in these first 4 games, but you have to agree that he is a much better player than Niang. Niang should not be a rotation player in the NBA Playoffs. Rui clearly is. That is why I say he would fill a role in Cleveland and that is why I would want him over DLO in a hypothetical trade for Donovan Mitchell.

Rui got played off the floor against Denver last year as well. Yes, he's been better than Niang. Every player to get post season minutes has been better than Niang in the playoffs. That Mo/Issac lineup has been absolutely killing Mobley/Niang every time they've hit the floor and Mosley is in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

But in a thread where you have Lakers fans saying Rui isn't enough of a two-way player to get minutes in the playoffs, you may want to take a step back and reflect on that because you're the only one assigning him any actual trade value on his contract.

Personally, I have DFS as considerably better than Rui and comparable to Reaves. I have Cam Johnson as a more useful player off the bench than Rui, particularly in a playoff series. If neither of them are two-way players, give me the guy who is a good off-ball player who can come in and drop 15 in 10 minutes on the other team. Where the rubber meets the road for me is if you're trading Mitchell for role and/or bench players, then you better be getting some picks with high upside that convey within a couple years. The Nets have those. The Lakers do not.

1. What do you mean he was played off the court against Denver last year? Where did you get your information? Unless the numbers I am looking at are wrong, he averaged 15.3ppg vs Denver last year in the playoffs on 53% shooting. He played 28 minutes in game 1, 30 minutes in game 2, 34 minutes in game 3, and 42 minutes in game 4. I am not trying to be funny, but where did you get your numbers from? I might be wrong.

2. Rui hasn't just been better than Niang. He IS better than Niang. He is considerably better than Niang. That is why I said he would fill a role on Cleveland's team.

3. Rui can absolutely play in the playoffs. Again, look at the career playoff numbers I posted. They are pretty good. The idea that Rui can't play in the playoffs because he hasn't been good these last 4 games is silly. I suggest YOU take a step back and look at his actual numbers. Again, maybe you are looking at numbers that are wrong--or maybe I am--because you had Rui getting played off the court in last year's WCF.

4. I disagree with DFS being a considerably better player than Rui or Reaves. I think that is a really bad take but I think you can certainly make an argument that Cam/DFS is better than Rui/Reaves as a combo. I would still lean towards Rui and Reaves but I probably like Cam a bit more than either Rui or Reaves and he is locked into a deal that is 1 year longer than Reaves and Rui. I completely agree with you about the Nets having better draft compensation to offer. I would also try stand firm in demanding Clowney from the Nets to go with the 2027 and 2029 PHX first rounders.

Overall I would say I would take Cam/DFS/Clowney/2027 and 2029 PHX first over the Laker package even if the Lakers added the draft rights to their 2024 pick to the mix. I just think the Laker package is viable.

[jbk1234]

Come on JBK, not every Cavs trade over here deserves snark/hate. Rui would be replacing Niang and he is MUCH better than Niang.

Rui in the playoffs: 12ppg on 55% shooting and 49% from 3
Niang in the playoffs: 5ppg on 40% shooting and 36% from 3

I agree that Rui has not been good in these first 4 games, but you have to agree that he is a much better player than Niang. Niang should not be a rotation player in the NBA Playoffs. Rui clearly is. That is why I say he would fill a role in Cleveland and that is why I would want him over DLO in a hypothetical trade for Donovan Mitchell.

Rui got played off the floor against Denver last year as well. Yes, he's been better than Niang. Every player to get post season minutes has been better than Niang in the playoffs. That Mo/Issac lineup has been absolutely killing Mobley/Niang every time they've hit the floor and Mosley is in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

But in a thread where you have Lakers fans saying Rui isn't enough of a two-way player to get minutes in the playoffs, you may want to take a step back and reflect on that because you're the only one assigning him any actual trade value on his contract.

Personally, I have DFS as considerably better than Rui and comparable to Reaves. I have Cam Johnson as a more useful player off the bench than Rui, particularly in a playoff series. If neither of them are two-way players, give me the guy who is a good off-ball player who can come in and drop 15 in 10 minutes on the other team. Where the rubber meets the road for me is if you're trading Mitchell for role and/or bench players, then you better be getting some picks with high upside that convey within a couple years. The Nets have those. The Lakers do not.

1. What do you mean he was played off the court against Denver last year? Where did you get your information? Unless the numbers I am looking at are wrong, he averaged 15.3ppg vs Denver last year in the playoffs on 53% shooting. He played 28 minutes in game 1, 30 minutes in game 2, 34 minutes in game 3, and 42 minutes in game 4. I am not trying to be funny, but where did you get your numbers from? I might be wrong.

2. Rui hasn't just been better than Niang. He IS better than Niang. He is considerably better than Niang. That is why I said he would fill a role on Cleveland's team.

3. Rui can absolutely play in the playoffs. Again, look at the career playoff numbers I posted. They are pretty good. The idea that Rui can't play in the playoffs because he hasn't been good these last 4 games is silly. I suggest YOU take a step back and look at his actual numbers. Again, maybe you are looking at numbers that are wrong--or maybe I am--because you had Rui getting played off the court in last year's WCF.

4. I disagree with DFS being a considerably better player than Rui or Reaves. I think that is a really bad take but I think you can certainly make an argument that Cam/DFS is better than Rui/Reaves as a combo. I would still lean towards Rui and Reaves but I probably like Cam a bit more than either Rui or Reaves and he is locked into a deal that is 1 year longer than Reaves and Rui. I completely agree with you about the Nets having better draft compensation to offer. I would also try stand firm in demanding Clowney from the Nets to go with the 2027 and 2029 PHX first rounders.

Overall I would say I would take Cam/DFS/Clowney/2027 and 2029 PHX first over the Laker package even if the Lakers added the draft rights to their 2024 pick to the mix. I just think the Laker package is viable.

You're right on No. 1. It was the series against the Warriors that Rui struggled in last season. I got them mixed up. At the end of the day, better than Niang doesn't do it for me as I think Niang isn't really playable in the playoffs outside of a couple hypothetical matchups. That was a miss by Altman given the team's stated goals.

The problem with all of Rui, Reaves, DFS, and Cam Johnson is they look a whole lot better when they're a secondary or tertiary concern of the opposing defenses. I'm still waiting on a role player who looks the same after LBJ leaves.

Garland alone ain't going to get it done in the playoffs which is why those picks become really, really important. DFS is the best defender of the group. We can at least be an elite defensive team while Mobley develops and wait on the picks.