RealGM

Miami Trades
-Tyler Herro
-Jaime Jaquez Jr
-2029 unprotected 1st
-2031 unprotected 1st

Miami Receives
-Donovan Mitchell

New Orleans Trades
-Brandon Ingram
-Larry Nance

New Orleans Receives
-Jarrett Allen
-Tyler Herro

Cleveland Trades
-Donovan Mitchell
-Jarrett Allen

Cleveland Receives
-Jaime Jaquez Jr
-Brandon Ingram
-Larry Nance
-2029 Miami unprotected 1st
-2031 Miami unprotected 1st

-Miami gets the lead guard they desperately need. Mitchell makes the Heat a contender from day 1 and he is young enough to team with Bam to keep Miami competitive after Butler is gone

-New Orleans gets the center they want to replace Val plus a sweet-shooting SG that can transition to the bench so that Murphy gets the starting nod.

-Cleveland does the best they can if Mitchell refuses to extend. I don't know what kind of assurance the Cavs can get that Ingram would accept a max offer, so that could tank things. Garland-Strus-Ingram-Jacquez-Mobley is a darn good starting lineup.

This might be a trade that all 3 teams disagree on.

I don't like this for the Cavs (the Nets really should be the third team here) and the Pelicans aren't likely to want to run with a CJ/Herro backcourt. They have to pay Murphy so I don't see them wanting Herro at all unless a 4th team is taking CJ.

I don't like this for Miami, personally. Not feeling a Mitchell-Rozier backcourt.

BBallFreak wrote:I don't like this for Miami, personally. Not feeling a Mitchell-Rozier backcourt.

I think Spo would agree. In an ideal world you would put a really good 3-point shooting wing in the 6-7 or 6-8 range between Mitchell and Butler. That would space the court for the starters and move Rozier to the bench to be a 6th man. Now where can Miami turn to for a sweet shooting 6-7/6-8 SG/SF...

DowJones wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I don't like this for Miami, personally. Not feeling a Mitchell-Rozier backcourt.

I think Spo would agree. In an ideal world you would put a really good 3-point shooting wing in the 6-7 or 6-8 range between Mitchell and Butler. That would space the court for the starters and move Rozier to the bench to be a 6th man. Now where can Miami turn to for a sweet shooting 6-7/6-8 SG/SF...

No, in an ideal world, you would put Mitchell at shooting guard next to a big, point of attack defender who can handle the point guard role. Miami doesn't have that.

BBallFreak wrote:

DowJones wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I don't like this for Miami, personally. Not feeling a Mitchell-Rozier backcourt.

I think Spo would agree. In an ideal world you would put a really good 3-point shooting wing in the 6-7 or 6-8 range between Mitchell and Butler. That would space the court for the starters and move Rozier to the bench to be a 6th man. Now where can Miami turn to for a sweet shooting 6-7/6-8 SG/SF...

No, in an ideal world, you would put Mitchell at shooting guard next to a big, point of attack defender who can handle the point guard role. Miami doesn't have that.

Obviously I don't think Duncan Robinson is THE perfect player to put between Mitchell and Butler but my point is that he would be the starter and Rozier would be the 6th man and the fit works really well. I personally think Mitchell gives Miami a 2 or 3 year window of being a top 2 or 3 title favorite and he extends Miami's window of ECF/NBA Finals for a few years after Butler's inevitable decline.

If I'm the Cavs I cut NOP out. I feel like the Cavs are losing a ton of value on the Allen part of the trade. I'd take Herro with team control over Ingram who's as much of a flight risk as Mitchell.

(Or is Nance supposed to end up in CLE in the OP?)

toooskies wrote:If I'm the Cavs I cut NOP out. I feel like the Cavs are losing a ton of value on the Allen part of the trade. I'd take Herro with team control over Ingram who's as much of a flight risk as Mitchell.

(Or is Nance supposed to end up in CLE in the OP?)

Yeah, folding JA into the deal killed it for me. I realise he may need to be moved to unlock Mobley's full potential, but I don't think this deal is getting JA's full value back, or even particularly close to it...

toooskies wrote:If I'm the Cavs I cut NOP out. I feel like the Cavs are losing a ton of value on the Allen part of the trade. I'd take Herro with team control over Ingram who's as much of a flight risk as Mitchell.

(Or is Nance supposed to end up in CLE in the OP?)

Yeah, in this hypothetical Nance is going back to Cleveland. My bad on that.

DowJones wrote:

toooskies wrote:If I'm the Cavs I cut NOP out. I feel like the Cavs are losing a ton of value on the Allen part of the trade. I'd take Herro with team control over Ingram who's as much of a flight risk as Mitchell.

(Or is Nance supposed to end up in CLE in the OP?)

Yeah, in this hypothetical Nance is going back to Cleveland. My bad on that.

Yeah, well in that case I consider the difference between JA and Nance to be measurably greater than the difference between Ingram and Herro, who should both be 2nd options on a good team, probably 3rd options on a great one. Just my opion, though, and why I'd just keep it a Mitchell trade with Miami over this iteration. If nothing else, I'd let Herro showcase himself early for a trade, hope Orlando bites on a Black + filler deal, or someone else could always come out of the woodwork for him too. If MIA offered Herro, JJJ, and those 2 unprotected 1sts for Mitchell, I'd take that over the 3-team version and work out the details later.

axeman23 wrote:

DowJones wrote:

toooskies wrote:If I'm the Cavs I cut NOP out. I feel like the Cavs are losing a ton of value on the Allen part of the trade. I'd take Herro with team control over Ingram who's as much of a flight risk as Mitchell.

(Or is Nance supposed to end up in CLE in the OP?)

Yeah, in this hypothetical Nance is going back to Cleveland. My bad on that.

Yeah, well in that case I consider the difference between JA and Nance to be measurably greater than the difference between Ingram and Herro, who should both be 2nd options on a good team, probably 3rd options on a great one. Just my opion, though, and why I'd just keep it a Mitchell trade with Miami over this iteration. If nothing else, I'd let Herro showcase himself early for a trade, hope Orlando bites on a Black + filler deal, or someone else could always come out of the woodwork for him too. If MIA offered Herro, JJJ, and those 2 unprotected 1sts for Mitchell, I'd take that over the 3-team version and work out the details later.

It's pretty easy to make the case that Herro/Garland in a backcourt is just unworkable defensively, so I get the desire to move Herro otherwise. Maybe some other balancer gets added, like Daniels for Jerome and one of the 1sts.

toooskies wrote:

axeman23 wrote:

DowJones wrote:
Yeah, in this hypothetical Nance is going back to Cleveland. My bad on that.

Yeah, well in that case I consider the difference between JA and Nance to be measurably greater than the difference between Ingram and Herro, who should both be 2nd options on a good team, probably 3rd options on a great one. Just my opion, though, and why I'd just keep it a Mitchell trade with Miami over this iteration. If nothing else, I'd let Herro showcase himself early for a trade, hope Orlando bites on a Black + filler deal, or someone else could always come out of the woodwork for him too. If MIA offered Herro, JJJ, and those 2 unprotected 1sts for Mitchell, I'd take that over the 3-team version and work out the details later.

It's pretty easy to make the case that Herro/Garland in a backcourt is just unworkable defensively, so I get the desire to move Herro otherwise. Maybe some other balancer gets added, like Daniels for Jerome and one of the 1sts.

I don't think Daniels is WORTH either of those 1sts unprotected, but I do like him... For this year's Cavs 1st and Ty, I'd definately kick the tyres on him!

I don't see the argument for a Mobley/JJJ frontcourt being better than Allen/Mobley - on either end of the court. The only upgrade would be Ingram at 3 so if you're cutting out the Pelicans (and I agree they'd have to add), none of it makes sense. We'd be downgrading at multiple positions for a couple picks 5-7 years out?

If Mitchell won't extend, and that's a bigger if than than seems to be the consensus on this board, then I'd much rather deal with the Nets.

BBallFreak wrote:I don't like this for Miami, personally. Not feeling a Mitchell-Rozier backcourt.

If you can get Mitchell, you get Mitchell and figure out the Rozier part of the equation later. You don't pass on stars because they don't fit with your role players, you move your role players to fit with your stars.

Knowing the way the Heat approach things, Tyler Herro plus 3 first rd picks (2024, 2029, 2031) will be on the table for Donnovan Mitchell.

I saw this comment on another thread, & it pretty much sums up what I think of Ingram.

LarsV8 wrote:Controversial Take:

Is Ingram really anything more than a slightly above average player?

Seems like a limited impact guys, misses 20-30 games a year.

As a fan of a team looking to "buy", I don't know how thrilled I would be with him.

JJ_PR wrote:I saw this comment on another thread, & it pretty much sums up what I think of Ingram.

LarsV8 wrote:Controversial Take:

Is Ingram really anything more than a slightly above average player?

Seems like a limited impact guys, misses 20-30 games a year.

As a fan of a team looking to "buy", I don't know how thrilled I would be with him.

Kind of where I am too. And not something I'd be willing to move an All-NBA Player from last year in Mitchell for. Especially when the justification for him staying around long-term is "he'd probably stay if you maxed him out". I mean I'm sure there are WORSE players than Ingram on max deals, but I'm equally sure those teams are regretting it somewhat too.

R-DAWG wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I don't like this for Miami, personally. Not feeling a Mitchell-Rozier backcourt.

If you can get Mitchell, you get Mitchell and figure out the Rozier part of the equation later. You don't pass on stars because they don't fit with your role players, you move your role players to fit with your stars.

Knowing the way the Heat approach things, Tyler Herro plus 3 first rd picks (2024, 2029, 2031) will be on the table for Donnovan Mitchell.

If we hadn't just invested so heavily in Rozier I would agree. As is, I don't.

BBallFreak wrote:

R-DAWG wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I don't like this for Miami, personally. Not feeling a Mitchell-Rozier backcourt.

If you can get Mitchell, you get Mitchell and figure out the Rozier part of the equation later. You don't pass on stars because they don't fit with your role players, you move your role players to fit with your stars.

Knowing the way the Heat approach things, Tyler Herro plus 3 first rd picks (2024, 2029, 2031) will be on the table for Donnovan Mitchell.

If we hadn't just invested so heavily in Rozier I would agree. As is, I don't.

You wouldn't be releasing Rozier - you would look to trade him for a better fitting player.

You don't pass on Mitchell because Rozier is on the roster, at least Pat Riley wont

R-DAWG wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

R-DAWG wrote:
If you can get Mitchell, you get Mitchell and figure out the Rozier part of the equation later. You don't pass on stars because they don't fit with your role players, you move your role players to fit with your stars.

Knowing the way the Heat approach things, Tyler Herro plus 3 first rd picks (2024, 2029, 2031) will be on the table for Donnovan Mitchell.

If we hadn't just invested so heavily in Rozier I would agree. As is, I don't.

You wouldn't be releasing Rozier - you would look to trade him for a better fitting player.

You don't pass on Mitchell because Rozier is on the roster, at least Pat Riley wont

So, let's just keep pouring more assets without ever solving our biggest issues? A Rozier/Robinson/Butler wing is fine. A Bam/any guy with a pulse frontcourt isn't. You guys keep pouring assets into a position that's already strong while our frontcourt struggles with size and Bam is left to do everything. No thanks. I also don't see Mitchell as the guy you pour all those assets into.

axeman23 wrote:

toooskies wrote:If I'm the Cavs I cut NOP out. I feel like the Cavs are losing a ton of value on the Allen part of the trade. I'd take Herro with team control over Ingram who's as much of a flight risk as Mitchell.

(Or is Nance supposed to end up in CLE in the OP?)

Yeah, folding JA into the deal killed it for me. I realise he may need to be moved to unlock Mobley's full potential, but I don't think this deal is getting JA's full value back, or even particularly close to it...

agree with both

the CLE:MIA portion of the OP deal is perfectly fine. seemingly pretty reasonable value. Would like the idea of redirecting Herro, but not at the expense of Allen.