RealGM

Myth wrote:Saddens me to this day that Anfernee Simons was the holdup in a rumored trade to send AG to the Blazers. We then traded for Covington instead.

It's honestly a bummer that Portland got Robert Covington two season too late (when he was playing at a DPOY-level). By the time they got him, he was pretty much broken goods. I would have loved watching him on Playoff-caliber squad, during his peak.

jayjaysee wrote:This thread been bumped twice over the years. That’s cute.

Impressive build around a generational player, willingness to pay to keep the team, and the players all playing in their roles and excelling.. It’s fun to watch.

This was the part that really makes it work, to me. Gordon had talked about wanting to play with the ball through his hands and shooting more when he was with Orlando, and then after being dealt to Denver, he seemed to much more embrace his off ball role and focusing on defense and just being a secondary/tertiary distributor off of the hub of Jokic. Definitely worked well.

I still don't think it's a great contract. I mean, it works for Denver. He's a rim runner in a perfect spot. Solid defender, passable shooter. But he'd get exposed on most teams as a pretty average player.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:This thread been bumped twice over the years. That’s cute.

Impressive build around a generational player, willingness to pay to keep the team, and the players all playing in their roles and excelling.. It’s fun to watch.

This was the part that really makes it work, to me. Gordon had talked about wanting to play with the ball through his hands and shooting more when he was with Orlando, and then after being dealt to Denver, he seemed to much more embrace his off ball role and focusing on defense and just being a secondary/tertiary distributor off of the hub of Jokic. Definitely worked well.

I also think he asked about having more offensive duties in Orlando because the team didn't have good PGs when he was here. And we still have poor PGs.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:This thread been bumped twice over the years. That’s cute.

Impressive build around a generational player, willingness to pay to keep the team, and the players all playing in their roles and excelling.. It’s fun to watch.

This was the part that really makes it work, to me. Gordon had talked about wanting to play with the ball through his hands and shooting more when he was with Orlando, and then after being dealt to Denver, he seemed to much more embrace his off ball role and focusing on defense and just being a secondary/tertiary distributor off of the hub of Jokic. Definitely worked well.

Long history of guys on bad teams going to play with an undeniable talent like Jokic and immediately going from seeming dumb while desperately trying to make things happen on O to humble and seeming smart on the offensive end of the floor.

There's also the PG aspect of it. Ibaka decided he had to play like prime Karl Malone on O in Orlando and then fit in nicely in Toronto with Van Vleet and/or Lowry basically exclusively deciding when and where he shot the ball from.

A guard version of a guy whose usage is probably too high and might look smart on a new team is Sexton, even though Hardy is a good offensive coach and Lauri is a good big to play with. Still, the guys immediately ahead of him in usage are Kyrie, Lillard, Jaylen Brown, KD, LeBron, Jokic and Zion, so that's just too damn high. And he's got the physical tools on defence.

Laimbeer wrote:I still don't think it's a great contract. I mean, it works for Denver. He's a rim runner in a perfect spot. Solid defender, passable shooter. But he'd get exposed on most teams as a pretty average player.

I think having a stretch 5 is huge for him, but OKC, Boston and Denver might be the 3 best teams in the league partly for that reason. He might only be worth 23M a year on bad teams, but he's a 30M player on a team with a stretch 5. Siakam is similar but 10M higher in both settings. It's just what quality 4s who aren't SFs in disguise need.

Ell Curry wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:This thread been bumped twice over the years. That’s cute.

Impressive build around a generational player, willingness to pay to keep the team, and the players all playing in their roles and excelling.. It’s fun to watch.

This was the part that really makes it work, to me. Gordon had talked about wanting to play with the ball through his hands and shooting more when he was with Orlando, and then after being dealt to Denver, he seemed to much more embrace his off ball role and focusing on defense and just being a secondary/tertiary distributor off of the hub of Jokic. Definitely worked well.

Long history of guys on bad teams going to play with an undeniable talent like Jokic and immediately going from seeming dumb while desperately trying to make things happen on O to humble and seeming smart on the offensive end of the floor.

Seems like you think that all players mean perfectly well and want only what’s best for the team, and I really think that ignores that some players think the answer is always “they should just let me cook”.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Ell Curry wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:
This was the part that really makes it work, to me. Gordon had talked about wanting to play with the ball through his hands and shooting more when he was with Orlando, and then after being dealt to Denver, he seemed to much more embrace his off ball role and focusing on defense and just being a secondary/tertiary distributor off of the hub of Jokic. Definitely worked well.

Long history of guys on bad teams going to play with an undeniable talent like Jokic and immediately going from seeming dumb while desperately trying to make things happen on O to humble and seeming smart on the offensive end of the floor.

Seems like you think that all players mean perfectly well and want only what’s best for the team, and I really think that ignores that some players think the answer is always “they should just let me cook”.

Oh I never said "all". There's Christian Wood guys who don't understand the game or team play, and guys like Ayton who just want to cook but can't really cook, and guys who just don't have the tools/smarts to survive on defence.

But Gordon was just a guy trying to initiate way too much offence on a team with no star or quality lead guard. But Gordon coming out of the draft was considered a good passer and he had the physical tools to be impactful on D with the right teammates.

Ell Curry wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:This thread been bumped twice over the years. That’s cute.

Impressive build around a generational player, willingness to pay to keep the team, and the players all playing in their roles and excelling.. It’s fun to watch.

This was the part that really makes it work, to me. Gordon had talked about wanting to play with the ball through his hands and shooting more when he was with Orlando, and then after being dealt to Denver, he seemed to much more embrace his off ball role and focusing on defense and just being a secondary/tertiary distributor off of the hub of Jokic. Definitely worked well.

Long history of guys on bad teams going to play with an undeniable talent like Jokic and immediately going from seeming dumb while desperately trying to make things happen on O to humble and seeming smart on the offensive end of the floor.

There's also the PG aspect of it. Ibaka decided he had to play like prime Karl Malone on O in Orlando and then fit in nicely in Toronto with Van Vleet and/or Lowry basically exclusively deciding when and where he shot the ball from.

A guard version of a guy whose usage is probably too high and might look smart on a new team is Sexton, even though Hardy is a good offensive coach and Lauri is a good big to play with. Still, the guys immediately ahead of him in usage are Kyrie, Lillard, Jaylen Brown, KD, LeBron, Jokic and Zion, so that's just too damn high. And he's got the physical tools on defence.

Sexton is a pretty different player now than he was 3 years ago, he plays within the offense and has developed a lot as a secondary facilitator.