Very Simple Trade - Jarrett Allen for Wendell Carter Jr

[jbk1234]

to be fair allen played in game 3 blowout by more then both first 2 games combined and first experience in playoffs for most all magic players that play real min...but you are correct a couple games does not change things

Allen played 24 minutes in Game 3. He played a combined 73 minutes in Games 1 & 2.

yea because no starters played in 4th from both teams due to blowout...and wcj did not start first 2 games and no min in 4th quarter of games 3 and 4 due to blowouts..and wcj needed surgery on hand that was broke in game 5 of reg season right after playoffs that he played thru...i can spin also...or just state facts

You made an objectively false statement. I corrected you. That's not spin. Spinning is what you're doing now.

[orlando_joe]

Allen played 24 minutes in Game 3. He played a combined 73 minutes in Games 1 & 2.

yea because no starters played in 4th from both teams due to blowout...and wcj did not start first 2 games and no min in 4th quarter of games 3 and 4 due to blowouts..and wcj needed surgery on hand that was broke in game 5 of reg season right after playoffs that he played thru...i can spin also...or just state facts

You made an objectively false statement. I corrected you. That's not spin. Spinning is what you're doing now.

your the one that made it seem like he did not play in game 3? ok

[jbk1234]

The Magic are not going to add Isaac or Black, who both are much more valuable than either player.

I don't see #18 making sense for the Cavs as they are in win now. If WCJ does not make them better, which I would propose WCJ's 3 point shooting (he is a 37% shooter from 3) makes their guards much better, then it it does not make much sense for the Cavs.

Why did this thread get bumped after Allen went beast mode against the Magic in the first two games of that series and all the damage the Magic did at home was with Allen on the bench?

I'm just really struggling with how anyone thinks that sequence of events changed the dynamic from last offseason when Allen didn't have the best series against the Knicks. It's not a rational thought. WCJ taking three 3 point attempts a game and converting 1.2 of them doesn't change that.

Allen being really good is not a hidden secret. He was an All-Star. Allen's a 9. Mobley's a 9. Together, they are a 15...I'm assuming Mobley is the one they'd keep if they break up the pair. Either one would bring back a lot. Allen is probably better than Mobley today, but Mobley is probably the higher ceiling long-term bet. I'd happily sub Mobley into the discussion rather than Allen, if you prefer.

Let's say WCJ is a 7...what's the add that makes it a fair deal?

I wouldn't trade Allen at all, but assuming the Cavs would, I think you have to think long and hard about whether you want to send him to a young Eastern Conference competitor. Mobley probably isn't winning that battle next year in the playoffs. Mitchell isn't finishing as easily over Allen.

Then you get to the Magic, or at least their fans, taking all their really attractive pieces off the table. Assuming you navigate all of that, and the Magic have put together the best offer, you pull the trigger. Maybe WCJ, Black, and the Denver 1st. But Altman should be in no rush to deal anyone. These guys are all under contract.

[AaronB]

Allen played 24 minutes in Game 3. He played a combined 73 minutes in Games 1 & 2.

yea because no starters played in 4th from both teams due to blowout...and wcj did not start first 2 games and no min in 4th quarter of games 3 and 4 due to blowouts..and wcj needed surgery on hand that was broke in game 5 of reg season right after playoffs that he played thru...i can spin also...or just state facts

You made an objectively false statement. I corrected you. That's not spin. Spinning is what you're doing now.

Allen had a +/- of -21 in game 3 and -10 in game 4.

So your statement that all of the Magic damage in games 3 and 4 was with Allen on the bench is objectively false.

I have now corrected you.

[toooskies]

Let's not derail this thread with things not simple.

I would rather it die than degrade into a debate of complex trades.

The concept was always: if a team could improve by trading for a less valuable player but a better fit for their team, would they?

I would because the only thing I would care about is winning.

There are lots of "flip this guy and get back multiple assets" type of ideas, but those so rarely work out in any fashion.

I don't think the Cavs would think they're better with just WCJ. Possibly better as a starting group but worse in the 15 minutes a game where WCJ would be out there without Mobley.

So Orlando has to add value, whether that's #18 or Isaac or Black or somebody else.

The Magic are not going to add Isaac or Black, who both are much more valuable than either player.

I don't see #18 making sense for the Cavs as they are in win now. If WCJ does not make them better, which I would propose WCJ's 3 point shooting (he is a 37% shooter from 3) makes their guards much better, then it it does not make much sense for the Cavs.

WCJ's volume is not enough to create the gravity to play 4-out. It's enough to occasionally make teams pay for packing the paint, but they're still going to pack the paint. WCJ was a 28% 3-point shooter in the playoffs, he was not a difference-maker when it matters.

WCJ's career high in games played is 62. Allen has played 30% more games than WCJ over the span of WCJ's career.

Jarrett Allen has played roughly the same number of minutes over his career as WCJ and Isaac combined. In doing so he has produced nearly double the Win Shares and VORP as those two players combined. Last season he still had more Win Shares and VORP than both combined despite playing roughly the same minutes.

Allen was by far the best of the three in the playoffs this year, nearly producing more Win Shares and VORP as both Orlando players combined despite playing the fewest minutes of the three due to injury.

Isaac is injury-prone and on an expiring deal. He can't play starter minutes. You can't count on him. You can argue that Isaac might be the best player of all three when healthy-- I'd disagree, for me it's easily Allen-- but Isaac simply isn't ever healthy. As it is, Allen was a DPOY candidate (faded a bit down the stretch due to a hand injury he played through) and Isaac didn't play enough games to qualify for postseason awards. Even if Isaac plays extremely well and is extremely healthy in 2024-25, that just means you need to pay him and assume a bunch more health risk going forward.

It's fine if you and Orlando are high on Black and don't want to trade him, I just figured he's firmly in the unproven prospect tier given he wasn't even given a chance to contribute in the playoffs despite Orlando's other guards struggling. His 3-point shooting has a reasonable chance to be a mirage given his free throw shooting and college record, in which case he doesn't have much immediate value.

I'm sure the Cavs would take #18 and flip it into a player in another deal, so don't worry that the Cavs are win-now. We're just balancing value here. The Cavs can take #18, their own #20, and the salary of Niang or LeVert and turn it into another rotation player like DFS or Harrison Barnes.

[jbk1234]

yea because no starters played in 4th from both teams due to blowout...and wcj did not start first 2 games and no min in 4th quarter of games 3 and 4 due to blowouts..and wcj needed surgery on hand that was broke in game 5 of reg season right after playoffs that he played thru...i can spin also...or just state facts

You made an objectively false statement. I corrected you. That's not spin. Spinning is what you're doing now.

Allen had a +/- of -21 in game 3 and -10 in game 4.

So your statement that all of the Magic damage in games 3 and 4 was with Allen on the bench is objectively false.

I have now corrected you.

What was the Magic's MOV in those two games?

[AaronB]

I don't think the Cavs would think they're better with just WCJ. Possibly better as a starting group but worse in the 15 minutes a game where WCJ would be out there without Mobley.

So Orlando has to add value, whether that's #18 or Isaac or Black or somebody else.

The Magic are not going to add Isaac or Black, who both are much more valuable than either player.

I don't see #18 making sense for the Cavs as they are in win now. If WCJ does not make them better, which I would propose WCJ's 3 point shooting (he is a 37% shooter from 3) makes their guards much better, then it it does not make much sense for the Cavs.

WCJ's volume is not enough to create the gravity to play 4-out. It's enough to occasionally make teams pay for packing the paint, but they're still going to pack the paint. WCJ was a 28% 3-point shooter in the playoffs, he was not a difference-maker when it matters.

WCJ's career high in games played is 62. Allen has played 30% more games than WCJ over the span of WCJ's career.

Jarrett Allen has played roughly the same number of minutes over his career as WCJ and Isaac combined. In doing so he has produced nearly double the Win Shares and VORP as those two players combined. Last season he still had more Win Shares and VORP than both combined despite playing roughly the same minutes.

Allen was by far the best of the three in the playoffs this year, nearly producing more Win Shares and VORP as both Orlando players combined despite playing the fewest minutes of the three due to injury.

Isaac is injury-prone and on an expiring deal. He can't play starter minutes. You can't count on him. You can argue that Isaac might be the best player of all three when healthy-- I'd disagree, for me it's easily Allen-- but Isaac simply isn't ever healthy. As it is, Allen was a DPOY candidate (faded a bit down the stretch due to a hand injury he played through) and Isaac didn't play enough games to qualify for postseason awards. Even if Isaac plays extremely well and is extremely healthy in 2024-25, that just means you need to pay him and assume a bunch more health risk going forward.

It's fine if you and Orlando are high on Black and don't want to trade him, I just figured he's firmly in the unproven prospect tier given he wasn't even given a chance to contribute in the playoffs despite Orlando's other guards struggling. His 3-point shooting has a reasonable chance to be a mirage given his free throw shooting and college record, in which case he doesn't have much immediate value.

I'm sure the Cavs would take #18 and flip it into a player in another deal, so don't worry that the Cavs are win-now. We're just balancing value here. The Cavs can take #18, their own #20, and the salary of Niang or LeVert and turn it into another rotation player like DFS or Harrison Barnes.

Making the availability argument for Allen is a little disingenuous when he missed 8 of 12 playoff games this year.

Edit: missed one

[AaronB]

You made an objectively false statement. I corrected you. That's not spin. Spinning is what you're doing now.

Allen had a +/- of -21 in game 3 and -10 in game 4.

So your statement that all of the Magic damage in games 3 and 4 was with Allen on the bench is objectively false.

I have now corrected you.

What was the Magic's MOV in those two games?

It does not matter.

This is your statement: "all the damage the Magic did at home was with Allen on the bench"

It is verifiably false.

[Residual-Heat]

its going to be a looong offseason for both Magic and Cavs fans

[Wolveswin]

magic would never do that ..not close..no fixing..out of the question...bad ...

Explain.

Allen > WCJ. Thread has Allen > by at least a 1st.

Wagner > Garland…by more than a 1st?

I like Suggs more than Strus. But in the realm.

And as I asked, how far off. You say bad. I see close. Value wise.

well i see this as close to a blow up of team...magic i dont think interested in this direction at all i do not see allen as big upgrade at all small maybe but i like wcj contract and floor space on offense closer to wash...
franz and his position a 6'10 wing 2-way more team control just everything is not close to me for garland
really suggs is so much more value then strus its almost a insult

and the 45 mill tpe cavs would get...and use all magic space up..i think magic find different way to use that 45 mill cap space

That is better assessment. Better than previous post of sensationalism. Thank you.

[toooskies]

The Magic are not going to add Isaac or Black, who both are much more valuable than either player.

I don't see #18 making sense for the Cavs as they are in win now. If WCJ does not make them better, which I would propose WCJ's 3 point shooting (he is a 37% shooter from 3) makes their guards much better, then it it does not make much sense for the Cavs.

WCJ's volume is not enough to create the gravity to play 4-out. It's enough to occasionally make teams pay for packing the paint, but they're still going to pack the paint. WCJ was a 28% 3-point shooter in the playoffs, he was not a difference-maker when it matters.

WCJ's career high in games played is 62. Allen has played 30% more games than WCJ over the span of WCJ's career.

Jarrett Allen has played roughly the same number of minutes over his career as WCJ and Isaac combined. In doing so he has produced nearly double the Win Shares and VORP as those two players combined. Last season he still had more Win Shares and VORP than both combined despite playing roughly the same minutes.

Allen was by far the best of the three in the playoffs this year, nearly producing more Win Shares and VORP as both Orlando players combined despite playing the fewest minutes of the three due to injury.

Isaac is injury-prone and on an expiring deal. He can't play starter minutes. You can't count on him. You can argue that Isaac might be the best player of all three when healthy-- I'd disagree, for me it's easily Allen-- but Isaac simply isn't ever healthy. As it is, Allen was a DPOY candidate (faded a bit down the stretch due to a hand injury he played through) and Isaac didn't play enough games to qualify for postseason awards. Even if Isaac plays extremely well and is extremely healthy in 2024-25, that just means you need to pay him and assume a bunch more health risk going forward.

It's fine if you and Orlando are high on Black and don't want to trade him, I just figured he's firmly in the unproven prospect tier given he wasn't even given a chance to contribute in the playoffs despite Orlando's other guards struggling. His 3-point shooting has a reasonable chance to be a mirage given his free throw shooting and college record, in which case he doesn't have much immediate value.

I'm sure the Cavs would take #18 and flip it into a player in another deal, so don't worry that the Cavs are win-now. We're just balancing value here. The Cavs can take #18, their own #20, and the salary of Niang or LeVert and turn it into another rotation player like DFS or Harrison Barnes.

Making the availability argument for Allen is a little disingenuous when he missed 8 of 12 playoff games this year.

Edit: missed one

You think it isn't a genuine argument to say that Allen has a much better record with injuries than Isaac and WCJ? It would be dumb to project that Allen's bruised ribs have anything to do with his likelihood to be injured in the future than what WCJ and JI have gone through, which is what matters when discussing value-- what's most likely to happen in the future.

WCJ and Isaac have one season combined out of 13 where they have stayed healthy enough to qualify for the current postseason awards structure. Allen has one season out of 7 where he'd have missed that cutoff. (He broke his finger on the rim while blocking a shot that year-- fluke injury.)

Allen got his ribs bruised by the Wagners as a one-off-- another fluke injury-- and has no pattern of lower-body injuries that slow and end the careers of big men other than a few sprained ankles. WCJ and JI have a checkered history with all sorts of lower body injuries, both having issues with their feet, knees, hamstrings, and hips.

I am 100% genuine in my belief that Allen is much, much, much less of an injury risk going forward than WCJ and JI and carries significantly more value because of that.

[jbk1234]

WCJ's volume is not enough to create the gravity to play 4-out. It's enough to occasionally make teams pay for packing the paint, but they're still going to pack the paint. WCJ was a 28% 3-point shooter in the playoffs, he was not a difference-maker when it matters.

WCJ's career high in games played is 62. Allen has played 30% more games than WCJ over the span of WCJ's career.

Jarrett Allen has played roughly the same number of minutes over his career as WCJ and Isaac combined. In doing so he has produced nearly double the Win Shares and VORP as those two players combined. Last season he still had more Win Shares and VORP than both combined despite playing roughly the same minutes.

Allen was by far the best of the three in the playoffs this year, nearly producing more Win Shares and VORP as both Orlando players combined despite playing the fewest minutes of the three due to injury.

Isaac is injury-prone and on an expiring deal. He can't play starter minutes. You can't count on him. You can argue that Isaac might be the best player of all three when healthy-- I'd disagree, for me it's easily Allen-- but Isaac simply isn't ever healthy. As it is, Allen was a DPOY candidate (faded a bit down the stretch due to a hand injury he played through) and Isaac didn't play enough games to qualify for postseason awards. Even if Isaac plays extremely well and is extremely healthy in 2024-25, that just means you need to pay him and assume a bunch more health risk going forward.

It's fine if you and Orlando are high on Black and don't want to trade him, I just figured he's firmly in the unproven prospect tier given he wasn't even given a chance to contribute in the playoffs despite Orlando's other guards struggling. His 3-point shooting has a reasonable chance to be a mirage given his free throw shooting and college record, in which case he doesn't have much immediate value.

I'm sure the Cavs would take #18 and flip it into a player in another deal, so don't worry that the Cavs are win-now. We're just balancing value here. The Cavs can take #18, their own #20, and the salary of Niang or LeVert and turn it into another rotation player like DFS or Harrison Barnes.

Making the availability argument for Allen is a little disingenuous when he missed 8 of 12 playoff games this year.

Edit: missed one

You think it isn't a genuine argument to say that Allen has a much better record with injuries than Isaac and WCJ? It would be dumb to project that Allen's bruised ribs have anything to do with his likelihood to be injured in the future than what WCJ and JI have gone through, which is what matters when discussing value-- what's most likely to happen in the future.

WCJ and Isaac have one season combined out of 13 where they have stayed healthy enough to qualify for the current postseason awards structure. Allen has one season out of 7 where he'd have missed that cutoff. (He broke his finger on the rim while blocking a shot that year-- fluke injury.)

Allen got his ribs bruised by the Wagners as a one-off-- another fluke injury-- and has no pattern of lower-body injuries that slow and end the careers of big men other than a few sprained ankles. WCJ and JI have a checkered history with all sorts of lower body injuries, both having issues with their feet, knees, hamstrings, and hips.

I am 100% genuine in my belief that Allen is much, much, much less of an injury risk going forward than WCJ and JI and carries significantly more value because of that.

This guy isn't arguing in good faith.

[Skybox]

Making the availability argument for Allen is a little disingenuous when he missed 8 of 12 playoff games this year.

Edit: missed one

You think it isn't a genuine argument to say that Allen has a much better record with injuries than Isaac and WCJ? It would be dumb to project that Allen's bruised ribs have anything to do with his likelihood to be injured in the future than what WCJ and JI have gone through, which is what matters when discussing value-- what's most likely to happen in the future.

WCJ and Isaac have one season combined out of 13 where they have stayed healthy enough to qualify for the current postseason awards structure. Allen has one season out of 7 where he'd have missed that cutoff. (He broke his finger on the rim while blocking a shot that year-- fluke injury.)

Allen got his ribs bruised by the Wagners as a one-off-- another fluke injury-- and has no pattern of lower-body injuries that slow and end the careers of big men other than a few sprained ankles. WCJ and JI have a checkered history with all sorts of lower body injuries, both having issues with their feet, knees, hamstrings, and hips.

I am 100% genuine in my belief that Allen is much, much, much less of an injury risk going forward than WCJ and JI and carries significantly more value because of that.

This guy isn't arguing in good faith.

Rolling Isaac into the "availability" argument is definitely dirty pool...how about Grant Hill? Just like averaging in rookie performances to guys who have developed into very different players. Malik Monk's career stats, for example, certainly don't tell the story of the player he is now.

WCJ's broken finger isn't any more chronic an issue than Allen's bruise. Allen's a better player- there's not a lot to discuss about that...more of a matter of two unbalanced teams with some parts that might fit better elsewhere. It's mostly about a GM's ability to project how a player will do in that situation (not just what they've done to date). Wendell is a guy who has and easily could average 10 rpg in a different situation and he's got a lot more in his bag than he gets to show or work on when he's sitting between 2 prolific scorers at the forward spots, who have the ball in their hands most of the time. I'm also seeing a lot of doubts about his defense because he doesn't block many shots or "meet people at the rim" on the Top 10 plays of the day...just watch him and consider how good the team defensive rating has been and try to explain how the starting center was a negative He plays a thankless style of smart, position defense and switches extremely well on the perimeter. I think his physical habitus leads people who don't watch him to conclude he's "plodding" (some fool used that word when comparing WCJ to Brook Lopez, of all people ). Then consider that he makes about 11.5m for each of the next two years and consider what else you could add to build a better team. Allen makes 20m, which is not a terrible deal, but it's certainly not cheap...especially when the kid whose toes he's stepping on is about to get a $30+m extension this summer...$50m + for two Centers (regardless of what you want to call them)...WCJ is more of a PF, skill-wise than either of them - and that's kind of the point of the thread. I'd be very happy to keep WCJ in ORL unless we can use him to bring in the scoring guard that is a far bigger problem for ORL than Center...I just think a dominant rim-protector would take ORL's already solid defense to a nightmarish level...Imagine DeJounte Murray in for Gary Harris/Fultz and Claxton manning the C spot

[AaronB]

Making the availability argument for Allen is a little disingenuous when he missed 8 of 12 playoff games this year.

Edit: missed one

You think it isn't a genuine argument to say that Allen has a much better record with injuries than Isaac and WCJ? It would be dumb to project that Allen's bruised ribs have anything to do with his likelihood to be injured in the future than what WCJ and JI have gone through, which is what matters when discussing value-- what's most likely to happen in the future.

WCJ and Isaac have one season combined out of 13 where they have stayed healthy enough to qualify for the current postseason awards structure. Allen has one season out of 7 where he'd have missed that cutoff. (He broke his finger on the rim while blocking a shot that year-- fluke injury.)

Allen got his ribs bruised by the Wagners as a one-off-- another fluke injury-- and has no pattern of lower-body injuries that slow and end the careers of big men other than a few sprained ankles. WCJ and JI have a checkered history with all sorts of lower body injuries, both having issues with their feet, knees, hamstrings, and hips.

I am 100% genuine in my belief that Allen is much, much, much less of an injury risk going forward than WCJ and JI and carries significantly more value because of that.

This guy isn't arguing in good faith.

This is rich ... says the poster who posts demonstratively false information and thinks no one will actually look it up.

[toooskies]

You think it isn't a genuine argument to say that Allen has a much better record with injuries than Isaac and WCJ? It would be dumb to project that Allen's bruised ribs have anything to do with his likelihood to be injured in the future than what WCJ and JI have gone through, which is what matters when discussing value-- what's most likely to happen in the future.

WCJ and Isaac have one season combined out of 13 where they have stayed healthy enough to qualify for the current postseason awards structure. Allen has one season out of 7 where he'd have missed that cutoff. (He broke his finger on the rim while blocking a shot that year-- fluke injury.)

Allen got his ribs bruised by the Wagners as a one-off-- another fluke injury-- and has no pattern of lower-body injuries that slow and end the careers of big men other than a few sprained ankles. WCJ and JI have a checkered history with all sorts of lower body injuries, both having issues with their feet, knees, hamstrings, and hips.

I am 100% genuine in my belief that Allen is much, much, much less of an injury risk going forward than WCJ and JI and carries significantly more value because of that.

This guy isn't arguing in good faith.

Rolling Isaac into the "availability" argument is definitely dirty pool...how about Grant Hill? Just like averaging in rookie performances to guys who have developed into very different players. Malik Monk's career stats, for example, certainly don't tell the story of the player he is now.

WCJ's broken finger isn't any more chronic an issue than Allen's bruise. Allen's a better player- there's not a lot to discuss about that...more of a matter of two unbalanced teams with some parts that might fit better elsewhere. It's mostly about a GM's ability to project how a player will do in that situation (not just what they've done to date). Wendell is a guy who has and easily could average 10 rpg in a different situation and he's got a lot more in his bag than he gets to show or work on when he's sitting between 2 prolific scorers at the forward spots, who have the ball in their hands most of the time. I'm also seeing a lot of doubts about his defense because he doesn't block many shots or "meet people at the rim" on the Top 10 plays of the day...just watch him and consider how good the team defensive rating has been and try to explain how the starting center was a negative He plays a thankless style of smart, position defense and switches extremely well on the perimeter. I think his physical habitus leads people who don't watch him to conclude he's "plodding" (some fool used that word when comparing WCJ to Brook Lopez, of all people ). Then consider that he makes about 11.5m for each of the next two years and consider what else you could add to build a better team. Allen makes 20m, which is not a terrible deal, but it's certainly not cheap...especially when the kid whose toes he's stepping on is about to get a $30+m extension this summer...$50m + for two Centers (regardless of what you want to call them)...WCJ is more of a PF, skill-wise than either of them - and that's kind of the point of the thread. I'd be very happy to keep WCJ in ORL unless we can use him to bring in the scoring guard that is a far bigger problem for ORL than Center...I just think a dominant rim-protector would take ORL's already solid defense to a nightmarish level...Imagine DeJounte Murray in for Gary Harris/Fultz and Claxton manning the C spot

WCJ has never played 65 games in his career. He's literally hurt every year. I don't need to roll Isaac's numbers in to say that Allen has played 50% more minutes and almost 100 games more than WCJ over WCJ's career (which is a year shorter than Allen's).

Rolling Isaac in was just to refute the horrible take that Isaac somehow has more value than Allen as well.

[AaronB]

This guy isn't arguing in good faith.

Rolling Isaac into the "availability" argument is definitely dirty pool...how about Grant Hill? Just like averaging in rookie performances to guys who have developed into very different players. Malik Monk's career stats, for example, certainly don't tell the story of the player he is now.

WCJ's broken finger isn't any more chronic an issue than Allen's bruise. Allen's a better player- there's not a lot to discuss about that...more of a matter of two unbalanced teams with some parts that might fit better elsewhere. It's mostly about a GM's ability to project how a player will do in that situation (not just what they've done to date). Wendell is a guy who has and easily could average 10 rpg in a different situation and he's got a lot more in his bag than he gets to show or work on when he's sitting between 2 prolific scorers at the forward spots, who have the ball in their hands most of the time. I'm also seeing a lot of doubts about his defense because he doesn't block many shots or "meet people at the rim" on the Top 10 plays of the day...just watch him and consider how good the team defensive rating has been and try to explain how the starting center was a negative He plays a thankless style of smart, position defense and switches extremely well on the perimeter. I think his physical habitus leads people who don't watch him to conclude he's "plodding" (some fool used that word when comparing WCJ to Brook Lopez, of all people ). Then consider that he makes about 11.5m for each of the next two years and consider what else you could add to build a better team. Allen makes 20m, which is not a terrible deal, but it's certainly not cheap...especially when the kid whose toes he's stepping on is about to get a $30+m extension this summer...$50m + for two Centers (regardless of what you want to call them)...WCJ is more of a PF, skill-wise than either of them - and that's kind of the point of the thread. I'd be very happy to keep WCJ in ORL unless we can use him to bring in the scoring guard that is a far bigger problem for ORL than Center...I just think a dominant rim-protector would take ORL's already solid defense to a nightmarish level...Imagine DeJounte Murray in for Gary Harris/Fultz and Claxton manning the C spot

WCJ has never played 65 games in his career. He's literally hurt every year. I don't need to roll Isaac's numbers in to say that Allen has played 50% more minutes and almost 100 games more than WCJ over WCJ's career (which is a year shorter than Allen's).

Rolling Isaac in was just to refute the horrible take that Isaac somehow has more value than Allen as well.

Completely fair. But I hope you are also making the same points about Garland, who has never played more than 69 regular season games in a season.