TOR/SAC

Moderators: loserX, Andre Roberstan, HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, Texas Chuck, MoneyTalks41890, Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, Trader_Joe

sackings916
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,941
And1: 638
Joined: Sep 07, 2002

 

Post#21 » by sackings916 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:20 pm

xbl_sucks wrote:Toronto would not want Brad Miller for this price. I mean he's better then Rasho as a offensive player but the box score whoring needs to stop. Rasho does the small things like contest and block/alter shots. Look at some of the performences he has held Dwight Howard and company to.

Rasho also comes off the books one year earlier as opposed to Miller, Miller is also too offensivly (sp) minded where as Rasho is a better defensive player. Beno is having what one good year and he somehow has great value look at the history of "contract year" players ie Mike James, Jerome James, Brian Scalbrine etc. We are not going to trade Calderon for a guy who has been playing 1 great year of basketball.


I dont think either team does the trade, but if Rasho was such a good defensive C why is he playing less than 20 mins a game?
Mr Swagtastic
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 20,569
And1: 3,208
Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Location: Jurassic Park
         

 

Post#22 » by Mr Swagtastic » Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:25 pm

sackings916 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I dont think either team does the trade, but if Rasho was such a good defensive C why is he playing less than 20 mins a game?


he plays that much cause we want to give Bargnani some PT to devlop him into our future C. I mean if you had Bargnani would you want him to get almost 0 PT? Thats the point I am making. It's not about the talent stand point more so that Toronto isn't going to pay a aging Miller $33 million over 3 years compared to Nesterovic $16 over 2. It makes no sense to me and for our future when we have to worry about Delfino's, Beno's, Bargnani's and possibly a new backup SG contracts. That would be stupid just to have Miller on your team to me at least. I would do that for a much better C.
Kreamy
RealGM
Posts: 15,540
And1: 2,097
Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Location: Toronto
   

 

Post#23 » by Kreamy » Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:25 pm

Sacto doesn't consider this my ass. Calderon is the best player in the deal. Miller is 31 with 33 mil left on his contract. The Raptors aren't going to pay Miller that much to backup Bosh and Bargnani. What a joke. There's a reason Nesterovic, Parker, Garbajosa, Graham etc. all expire next year. The Raptors will be 10-15 mil under the cap. Sacto fans are delusional if they think Colangelo or any GM gives up all that cap space along with Calderon for Brad freakin' Miller.
Smills91
Banned User
Posts: 23,364
And1: 2
Joined: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Ronald Reagan is my political hero.

 

Post#24 » by Smills91 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:27 pm

Calderon is really good, but so is Beno...I don't think there's a huge talent discrepancy between the two. There's no way I trade Brad for Rasho for such a minimal talent discrepancy.
sacking123
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,464
And1: 1,348
Joined: Jul 23, 2004
Location: Office
Contact:
 

 

Post#25 » by sacking123 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:32 pm

xbl_sucks wrote:Toronto would not want Brad Miller for this price. I mean he's better then Rasho as a offensive player but the box score whoring needs to stop. Rasho does the small things like contest and block/alter shots. Look at some of the performences he has held Dwight Howard and company to.

Rasho also comes off the books one year earlier as opposed to Miller, Miller is also too offensivly (sp) minded where as Rasho is a better defensive player. Beno is having what one good year and he somehow has great value look at the history of "contract year" players ie Mike James, Jerome James, Brian Scalbrine etc. We are not going to trade Calderon for a guy who has been playing 1 great year of basketball.


It is really funny how people use an argument for another teams player and not on their own player.
So Jose isn't in a contract year either?
One of the reasons Beno is having a breakout year is because he has played on a championship team and was behind a guy called Tony Parker...in other words he has got his chance to shine and he is doing so.
You could say the same thing about Jose. Except he has never been on a championship team/contender or behind a great player like Parker.

I'm not saying Beno is better than Calderon because he isn't, but the least posters can do is not call a player out on something and completely ignore their own player.
The same can be said for Miller, the Kings simply won't be trading him unless the package is a great one (and we know that such a proposal won't come). It hasn't completely got to do with his play on the court as much as it has in teaching Hawes. And with the rook here, along with Theus as coach, it seems to have ignited Miller.
Sacramento Kings
Sydney Kings
sackings916
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,941
And1: 638
Joined: Sep 07, 2002

 

Post#26 » by sackings916 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:35 pm

xbl_sucks wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



he plays that much cause we want to give Bargnani some PT to devlop him into our future C. I mean if you had Bargnani would you want him to get almost 0 PT? Thats the point I am making. It's not about the talent stand point more so that Toronto isn't going to pay a aging Miller $33 million over 3 years compared to Nesterovic $16 over 2. It makes no sense to me and for our future when we have to worry about Delfino's, Beno's, Bargnani's and possibly a new backup SG contracts. That would be stupid just to have Miller on your team to me at least. I would do that for a much better C.


True, but good defensive big men are so rare that you would think he would get more than 18 mins a game, even with wanting to give Bargani PT especially with how bad Bargani's been this year.
Kreamy
RealGM
Posts: 15,540
And1: 2,097
Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Location: Toronto
   

 

Post#27 » by Kreamy » Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:39 pm

Smills91 wrote:Calderon is really good, but so is Beno...I don't think there's a huge talent discrepancy between the two. There's no way I trade Brad for Rasho for such a minimal talent discrepancy.


Calderon is putting up 13 pts and 10 asts on 50% shooting in 18 games as a starter. He also leads the league in assist to turnover ratio. Udrih is putting up 13 and 5 on 43% shooting in 22 games as a starter. I'm sorry but thats a huge talent discrepancy. Colangelo intentionally traded for and/or signed players that expire in '09... see Nesterovic, Parker, Garbajosa etc. so that the Raptors could be 10-15 mil under the cap. I highly doubt he shoots his plan to hell for Brad Miller. So even without Calderon, the Raptors wouldn't trade for Miller.
Kosta
RealGM
Posts: 16,353
And1: 2
Joined: Apr 03, 2006

 

Post#28 » by Kosta » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:06 pm

Smills91 wrote:Calderon is really good, but so is Beno...I don't think there's a huge talent discrepancy between the two. There's no way I trade Brad for Rasho for such a minimal talent discrepancy.


Ahaha, you don't see the difference between a player padding his stats and putting up nice numbers on a losing team? Beno is a flavor of the month type player, he hasn't proven anywhere near enough for an extended period of time to make me think otherwise. Calderon is a proven commodity.

The difference between Miller and Rasho is not nearly enough to make up for the difference between Beno "Vanilla Ice" Udrih and Jose Calderon. Throw in Miller's extra year and this one is not even close for Toronto.
User avatar
Rasheed36
Senior
Posts: 648
And1: 2
Joined: Dec 05, 2006

 

Post#29 » by Rasheed36 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:16 pm

LOL kid Kings aren't trading a former all star and soon to be the most improved player for 2 scrubs. I wouldn't want Cal or Rasho for free.
User avatar
bigjabroni
Pro Prospect
Posts: 810
And1: 86
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

 

Post#30 » by bigjabroni » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:33 pm

It is very, very unlikely that Calderon gets traded at this point. I'm not trying to say his an untouchable talent or anything like that. Just that realistically speaking, with what has happened to TJ and the role Calderon has been forced into, it would not be healthy for the team to trade him right now. He has tremendous pressure on him right now and so far he's lived up to it and his teammates and Toronto fans have given him a ton of support. TJ is extremely important to the Raptors and the only reason the team hasn't sunk without him is because of Calderon's effort. With a totally healthy and risk-free TJ, this trade would be worth plenty of discussion, but this isn't the case. With all the instability around Toronto's PG position brought on by TJ's condition, the last thing they want to do is to replace Jose.
Roy's the best player I've played against outside this guy from my hood in Queensbridge, guy named Mike Chaplain. He went to jail when he was 15 years old. He was the best player I played against, now it's Brandon Roy.
loserX
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 45,496
And1: 26,047
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
       

 

Post#31 » by loserX » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:38 pm

Rasheed36 wrote:LOL kid Kings aren't trading a former all star and soon to be the most improved player for 2 scrubs. I wouldn't want Cal or Rasho for free.


:o

I'm just going to quietly assume you have no bloody clue who Jose Calderon is. In either case, please make this trade and the Jazz will trade you a 2nd rounder for him.

(10,000th post! :rock: )
Kosta
RealGM
Posts: 16,353
And1: 2
Joined: Apr 03, 2006

 

Post#32 » by Kosta » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:47 pm

^Welcome to the 10 k club, junior.
ICMTM
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 16,347
And1: 176
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Location: Sacramento, Ca
     

 

Post#33 » by ICMTM » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:53 pm

Rasheed36 wrote:LOL kid Kings aren't trading a former all star and soon to be the most improved player for 2 scrubs. I wouldn't want Cal or Rasho for free.


That was almost accurate.

Udrih and Calderon are on the same level...one may be better than the other but it's not that significant.

Rasho is about as horrible as Stephen A Smith. You don't trade for Rasho ever. It's something you just don't do. The only reason Nesterovic ever comes up in a trade is to be a filler, not a main piece.
KANGZZZZZ!
Kosta
RealGM
Posts: 16,353
And1: 2
Joined: Apr 03, 2006

 

Post#34 » by Kosta » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:55 pm

ICMTM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That was almost accurate.

Udrih and Calderon are on the same level...one may be better than the other but it's not that significant.

Rasho is about as horrible as Stephen A Smith. You don't trade for Rasho ever. It's something you just don't do. The only reason Nesterovic ever comes up in a trade is to be a filler, not a main piece.


False.

Get NBA league pass.

Edit: Hes the white guy that wears # 8, next time you get the chance to watch the Raptors.
User avatar
sca
Head Coach
Posts: 7,400
And1: 9,181
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Turkey
 

 

Post#35 » by sca » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:58 pm

ICMTM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Udrih and Calderon are on the same level...one may be better than the other but it's not that significant.

I can't just believe a mod is saying that. fyi, I've just started a new topic & a poll:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=15014118
RaptorsLife on Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:45 pm wrote:
nabbs wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:Nurse can’t be our head coach

Why not? Who is your choice?

Def Messina

RaptorsLife on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:31 pm wrote:Messina sucks
User avatar
robertjanssen007
Veteran
Posts: 2,833
And1: 1
Joined: Feb 26, 2006

 

Post#36 » by robertjanssen007 » Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:50 pm

the calderon/udrih thread on the comparison board was deleted for some reason...

either way, the margin of greatness between calderon + udrih is greater than the talent level between miller + rasho.
User avatar
Schad
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 57,430
And1: 17,105
Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Location: The Goat Rodeo
     

 

Post#37 » by Schad » Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:53 pm

ICMTM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That was almost accurate.

Udrih and Calderon are on the same level...one may be better than the other but it's not that significant.


Calderon vs. Udrih, by the numbers:

Points/40 - Calderon: 15.7, Udrih: 15.2
Assists/40 - Calderon: 11.4, Udrih: 5.4
Rebounds/40 - Calderon: 4.3, Udrih: 4.0
FG% - Calderon: .508, Udrih: .436
3pt% - Calderon: .393, Udrih: .394
FT% - Calderon: .885, Udrih: .845
TS% - Calderon: .581, Udrih: .520
PER - Calderon: 22.16, Udrih: 13.39

Steals/40 - Calderon: 1.1, Udrih: 1.2
TO/40 - Calderon: 1.8, Udrih: 2.9
PF/40 - Calderon: 2.2, Udrih: 2.5

Calderon beats Udrih in every positive category except 3pt% and steals, and Udrih wins those by the slimmest of margins. There's no denying that Udrih is the more talented fouler and turnover artist, though.
Image
**** your asterisk.
bryant08
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 5,969
And1: 27
Joined: Jul 25, 2006
Contact:
       

 

Post#38 » by bryant08 » Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:20 pm

[quote="Schadenfreude"][/quote]

Thank you, not to mention Calderon has much better career stats, since we aren't judging these players on 20 games or so are we?

Return to Trades and Transactions