What’s Cade Cunningham worth?

[BDM22]

When did Wagner become this All-World player? He shot 28% from three and averaged five boards a game. Four assists? What am I missing?

Vibes. He's on a functional franchise so his value is now an extra #1 overall pick above Cade's.

I mean Cade did masterfully lead his team to worst record in all NBA.

I know you like (need?) sensationalism to back your narrative - but trade is a pick swap. And doesn’t need to be #1. Rights to Sarr for #18 swap in flat draft. Another word for sensationalism is lying.

Give him Paolo, Suggs, WCJ, Mo, Cole, a good coach, etc and let's see lol. You understand it's a team game, eh? Detroit had Cade starting next to Killian Hayes, Isaiah Livers, and Kevin Knox for big chunks of the year. These dudes aren't even in the league anymore

#18 to #1 is a MASSIVE jump even in this draft. Don't try to whitewash it like a #1 pick is a throw in to get the deal over the line lol

[Wolveswin]

Vibes. He's on a functional franchise so his value is now an extra #1 overall pick above Cade's.

I mean Cade did masterfully lead his team to worst record in all NBA.

I know you like (need?) sensationalism to back your narrative - but trade is a pick swap. And doesn’t need to be #1. Rights to Sarr for #18 swap in flat draft. Another word for sensationalism is lying.

Give him Paolo, Suggs, WCJ, Mo, Cole, a good coach, etc and let's see lol. You understand it's a team game, eh? Detroit had Cade starting next to Killian Hayes, Isaiah Livers, and Kevin Knox for big chunks of the year. These dudes aren't even in the league anymore

Sounds like excuses to me. Can’t have it both ways. On one hand quote stats from best player on a terrible team (which is obviously inflated) to say Cade is better but then on other hand it’s a team game because w/l results are train wreck.

[BDM22]

I mean Cade did masterfully lead his team to worst record in all NBA.

I know you like (need?) sensationalism to back your narrative - but trade is a pick swap. And doesn’t need to be #1. Rights to Sarr for #18 swap in flat draft. Another word for sensationalism is lying.

Give him Paolo, Suggs, WCJ, Mo, Cole, a good coach, etc and let's see lol. You understand it's a team game, eh? Detroit had Cade starting next to Killian Hayes, Isaiah Livers, and Kevin Knox for big chunks of the year. These dudes aren't even in the league anymore

Sounds like excuses to me. Can’t have it both ways. On one hand quote stats from best player on a terrible team (which is obviously inflated) to say Cade is better but then on other hand it’s a team game because w/l results are train wreck.

I didn't quote any stats. Only statistic I vaguely mentioned was Franz's shooting falling off the map this year.

Anyways, yeah, post your trade idea as you put it here as its own thread and see what general people say

[Skybox]

I think DET maxes Cade and buys in completely...he's been inefficient and injured, but i won't say too disappointing. I'm learning (on the ORL boards) that a rookie max extension is not that insane - like a vet's. It's more a matter of team situation, cap situation, FA appeal than pure value...but he puts up numbers, plays a vital modern role, and is the only thing on the roster that puts asses in the seats.

The rest are up for grabs, particularly Ivey - who can still bring something substantial back (due primarily to his rookie performance in Cade's role). I'd love to give him a look in ORL. Duren too...and I don't think either one of them is really that strong on their own, just great potential fits in ORL, who might look a lot better with a reset environment.

[MotownMadness]

He'll get the max

He still needs to get more efficient but he goes on long enough streaks where he plays like a star.

I imagine he avgs something around 25 and 8 with better efficiency next season.

[Slim Charless]

When did Wagner become this All-World player? He shot 28% from three and averaged five boards a game. Four assists? What am I missing?

Vibes. He's on a functional franchise so his value is now an extra #1 overall pick above Cade's.

I mean Cade did masterfully lead his team to worst record in all NBA.

I know you like (need?) sensationalism to back your narrative - but trade is a pick swap. And doesn’t need to be #1. Rights to Sarr for #18 swap in flat draft. Another word for sensationalism is lying.

Sarr goes #1 or #2 in the draft. So no, he's not lying. What's happening is you're getting heat for this wildly unfair trade suggestion and you're getting defensive about it.

Point is this:

Even if ur correctly saying that Franz is better than Cade, the difference is not the 1st or 2nd overall pick. Also, I think most would agree that Ausar is much better than Black

Those trade makes 0 sense if you have the Pistons giving up top 2 draft value in order to get a guy who the kind of year Franz did.

[Wolveswin]

Vibes. He's on a functional franchise so his value is now an extra #1 overall pick above Cade's.

I mean Cade did masterfully lead his team to worst record in all NBA.

I know you like (need?) sensationalism to back your narrative - but trade is a pick swap. And doesn’t need to be #1. Rights to Sarr for #18 swap in flat draft. Another word for sensationalism is lying.

Sarr goes #1 or #2 in the draft. So no, he's not lying. What's happening is you're getting heat for this wildly unfair trade suggestion and you're getting defensive about it.

Point is this:

Even if ur correctly saying that Franz is better than Cade, the difference is not the 1st or 2nd overall pick. Also, I think most would agree that Ausar is much better than Black

Those trade makes 0 sense if you have the Pistons giving up top 2 draft value in order to get a guy who the kind of year Franz did.

How is it defensive when facts are left out? It is a swap.

Magic would and should say no to Wagner for Case. How do you suggest Pistons do that if not a #2 for #18 swap?

[Slim Charless]

I mean Cade did masterfully lead his team to worst record in all NBA.

I know you like (need?) sensationalism to back your narrative - but trade is a pick swap. And doesn’t need to be #1. Rights to Sarr for #18 swap in flat draft. Another word for sensationalism is lying.

Sarr goes #1 or #2 in the draft. So no, he's not lying. What's happening is you're getting heat for this wildly unfair trade suggestion and you're getting defensive about it.

Point is this:

Even if ur correctly saying that Franz is better than Cade, the difference is not the 1st or 2nd overall pick. Also, I think most would agree that Ausar is much better than Black

Those trade makes 0 sense if you have the Pistons giving up top 2 draft value in order to get a guy who the kind of year Franz did.

How is it defensive when facts are left out? It is a swap.

Magic would and should say no to Wagner for Case. How do you suggest Pistons do that if not a #2 for #18 swap?

A swap of that magnitude is suggesting a massive gulf in talent. There's not that here as the 2 arent that far apart in skill and ability. That gulf between Cade and Franz is met by getting Ausar for Black.

Going from Sarr to whoever is at 18 is way too much

[orlando_joe]

He played 64 and 62 games, would've been more but Detroit is always tanking under Weaver.

He had one serious injury that made him miss an entire season.

they did not win when he played? its not tanking that is bad and losing plus the guy missed 100 ganes over 3 yrs and will want a max...and get it...and missing 25% of games a yr is nothing to brag about

just thought i would bring it back from the dump on franz this thread turned into...lol

And that’s my next question….. do you give him a max deal?

He’s the best player on the Pistons
He’s often injured
The Pistons won 14 games last season
When healthy, he projects as an eventual All-Star (although I don’t think next season, as All-Stars don’t come from 20 win teams)

as fan of magic...i dont make trade so let pistons max him..not even sure he has shown 4/100 money yet ..now if he explodes next yr and can play 75 games at over 35% or better from 3 and 45% from field with 8 assists with some defense then pay him

[orlando_joe]

Sarr goes #1 or #2 in the draft. So no, he's not lying. What's happening is you're getting heat for this wildly unfair trade suggestion and you're getting defensive about it.

Point is this:

Even if ur correctly saying that Franz is better than Cade, the difference is not the 1st or 2nd overall pick. Also, I think most would agree that Ausar is much better than Black

Those trade makes 0 sense if you have the Pistons giving up top 2 draft value in order to get a guy who the kind of year Franz did.

How is it defensive when facts are left out? It is a swap.

Magic would and should say no to Wagner for Case. How do you suggest Pistons do that if not a #2 for #18 swap?

A swap of that magnitude is suggesting a massive gulf in talent. There's not that here as the 2 arent that far apart in skill and ability. That gulf between Cade and Franz is met by getting Ausar for Black.

Going from Sarr to whoever is at 18 is way too much

well count this magic fan as a no to black for ausar unless a first rd pick comes with him..

[Slim Charless]

How is it defensive when facts are left out? It is a swap.

Magic would and should say no to Wagner for Case. How do you suggest Pistons do that if not a #2 for #18 swap?

A swap of that magnitude is suggesting a massive gulf in talent. There's not that here as the 2 arent that far apart in skill and ability. That gulf between Cade and Franz is met by getting Ausar for Black.

Going from Sarr to whoever is at 18 is way too much

well count this magic fan as a no to black for ausar unless a first rd pick comes with him..

That's ironic cause I have the value going the other way. Orlando would need to add to Black in order to get Ausar. To each his own.

[orlando_joe]

A swap of that magnitude is suggesting a massive gulf in talent. There's not that here as the 2 arent that far apart in skill and ability. That gulf between Cade and Franz is met by getting Ausar for Black.

Going from Sarr to whoever is at 18 is way too much

well count this magic fan as a no to black for ausar unless a first rd pick comes with him..

That's ironic cause I have the value going the other way. Orlando would need to add to Black in order to get Ausar. To each his own.

if these players are so good how did they set a recrd for most lost in a row? and not even win 15 games in a season that the draft is so fricken weak?

[Slim Charless]

well count this magic fan as a no to black for ausar unless a first rd pick comes with him..

That's ironic cause I have the value going the other way. Orlando would need to add to Black in order to get Ausar. To each his own.

if these players are so good how did they set a recrd for most lost in a row? and not even win 15 games in a season that the draft is so fricken weak?

Happy you asked. Perhaps you've noticed my team is the Suns. Well, I can tell you that Monty Williams is the worst coach in the league and several college teams. His nickname on the Suns board was Moronty. Should tell you all you need to know.

If DET had your coach, they would've won another 15 games. Minimum.

[ConSarnit]

This is wild lol, On what planet is a package around Franz worth Cade, Ausar AND a 1st overall pick (as you've indicated it here)?!? Franz is even less likely to become a #1 option than Cade. What would the point be here? To build a dynasty in Orlando?

I especially like how Cade "completes" Orlando's lineup as "the final piece" according to your words, yet somehow the Pistons are paying Orlando with Sarr and Ausar to take him

.... and that Franz is a "proven centerpiece to build around". The same Franz that had 1 of the worse game 7s in the history of the NBA/ABA....a time frame that goes back to the 1950s. Lol

Truly a wild suggestion.

Wagner > Cade in value. Easily so. By how much is debatable.

Thompson > Black but this is very marginal and each team will defend their rookie.

Pick swap needed for the delta.

I think you could have done that mental exercise - but I helped you. You are welcome.

You're calling Franz a "proven centerpiece". What team is looking at Franz as a centerpiece?

Centerpieces:

-high end shot creators for themselves and/or others
-volume scorers on good efficiency
-defensive anchors (largely centers only for this category)

Franz:

-questionable shooting
-average playmaking
-good defender at the 3/4
-good at attacking the rim

Who looks at Franz's profile and thinks "that guy is our future #1"? He's a fine player.

The main question is: in what world is he "proven"?

[Kalamazoo317]

At the start of the season, maybe. Right now Cade’s stock is up and Franz’s is down

[JRoy]

CC looks like a flawed but potential #1 guy if you believe in his upside.

FW looks like a #3 guy on a title team that brings a lot to the table, maybe a #2 guy if you believe the upside.

Both fine young players.

[Mr Peanut]

When did Wagner become this All-World player? He shot 28% from three and averaged five boards a game. Four assists? What am I missing?

Vibes. He's on a functional franchise so his value is now an extra #1 overall pick above Cade's.

I mean Cade did masterfully lead his team to worst record in all NBA.

I know you like (need?) sensationalism to back your narrative - but trade is a pick swap. And doesn’t need to be #1. Rights to Sarr for #18 swap in flat draft. Another word for sensationalism is lying.

Don't think you can really blame Cade for being surrounded with a terrible roster. During the 28 game losing streak he was putting up terrific numbers (25/5/7.5 in December) but was getting absolutely nothing from his teammates and hence the losses.

Cade's trajectory is to end up as a solid number 1 option, or elite number 2. Franz is a good player but likely maxes out as a 3rd option.

The narrative will change when Cade is finally on a good team and neutral fans will appreciate what he can do. Detroit fans already know this, so we wouldn't trade him for Wagner who won't reach the same ceiling.

[Mr Peanut]

they did not win when he played? its not tanking that is bad and losing plus the guy missed 100 ganes over 3 yrs and will want a max...and get it...and missing 25% of games a yr is nothing to brag about

just thought i would bring it back from the dump on franz this thread turned into...lol

And that’s my next question….. do you give him a max deal?

He’s the best player on the Pistons
He’s often injured
The Pistons won 14 games last season
When healthy, he projects as an eventual All-Star (although I don’t think next season, as All-Stars don’t come from 20 win teams)

as fan of magic...i dont make trade so let pistons max him..not even sure he has shown 4/100 money yet ..now if he explodes next yr and can play 75 games at over 35% or better from 3 and 45% from field with 8 assists with some defense then pay him

He's essentially at your targets already. Last season he shot 44.9% from the field, 35.5% from three and 7.5 assists (closer to 8 once we stopped starting Killian Hayes alongside him). He does need to work on his defense. And he would've played at least 70 games (if not more) if we had been competing for something, as he was shut down with 10 games to go although was still reasonably healthy.

[orlando_joe]

And that’s my next question….. do you give him a max deal?

He’s the best player on the Pistons
He’s often injured
The Pistons won 14 games last season
When healthy, he projects as an eventual All-Star (although I don’t think next season, as All-Stars don’t come from 20 win teams)

as fan of magic...i dont make trade so let pistons max him..not even sure he has shown 4/100 money yet ..now if he explodes next yr and can play 75 games at over 35% or better from 3 and 45% from field with 8 assists with some defense then pay him

He's essentially at your targets already. Last season he shot 44.9% from the field, 35.5% from three and 7.5 assists (closer to 8 once we stopped starting Killian Hayes alongside him). He does need to work on his defense. And he would've played at least 70 games (if not more) if we had been competing for something, as he was shut down with 10 games to go although was still reasonably healthy.

yea i did not make it hard now lets see if he can play 75 games and win some games and play defense at the same time
thats lazy pistons could have won like 8 more games and had same odds in a very weak draft thats what 75% more games then they did?