The Brock Purdy Thread

[Jikkle]

One thing I was thinking of as I was watching and listening to some reviews of the game: if Shanahan is not going to give Purdy more control at the LOS - for instance, audibling to a run on that devastating failed 3rd and 4 coming out of the two-minute warning - then I think there's a strong argument that you can't pay a guy like Purdy an elite QB salary. That's depriving Purdy of one of the things that could make him special, and given the physical limitations, you can't afford to do that. If he's the guy, Shanahan needs to trust him to be the guy with more pre-snap discretion. And if Shanahan won't do that, then you might need to consider looking for another cheap player who can do enough when surrounded by elite players.

has Shanahan ever done that tho? i don't remember him even letting Matt Ryan do that at the LoS.

Given how much he loves and trusts Cousins he might be the QB to see how much control Kyle gave to him in the time they were together.

But I think generally Shanahan has the belief that every play has answers and it's up to the QB to find it.

Another element is Kyle sometimes calls a play to set up a play later on or gather information so he probably doesn't want his QB messing that up by changing the play at the LoS.

Down the road Kyle may give Purdy more autonomy because despite the fact Purdy made it look easy he's still only has around a season and half of starter experience so it's not like he's a seasoned vet with years in Kyle's system.

[CrimsonCrew]

Maybe Kyle needs to look at changing his ways. Because he keeps losing the biggest games.

The key third down plays in the SB were a failure of play calling.

lol, he's been to 2 SBs as HC, and lost against maybe the greatest HC-QB tandem of all time both times..this whole narrative of Kyle not getting it done is hysterical

Oh great, his ceiling is Marv Levy.

Calling for Kyle's head is just an unrealistic position. Are there areas where he can improve? Absolutely. But he's still an excellent coach who is on the short list for best in the league. Other than the age, there's a strong argument for Reid over him, but the Mahomes factor muddles that one. Is Sean McVay better because he got a SB? Maybe. But Kyle has generally had his number, and he can thank Tartt for dropping one of the biggest gimme INTs in the history of organized football - and Jimmy being physically limited even for him - for that one. Bruce Arians? He won it with Brady, but I don't think many people would consider him a better coach.

We could jump ship and go for Belichick, but the shine came off of that one real fast once Brady left (216-94 with Brady, 83-101 without him). Doug Pederson won with the Eagles. Don't think anyone would advocate that trade. Gary Kubiak or Pete Carroll? I'll pass.

As said, the reality is that it's really hard to win the super bowl. 31 coaches fail every season. This past loss really stings because there are MANY plays you can point to that, if the result changes, we almost certainly win the game. Usually that's a two-way street, but this game didn't feel that way. They fumbled five times and lost one. We "fumbled" twice (one a real fluke) and lost both. They held blatantly throughout the game and were never called for it while we were called for it twice on less egregious plays - including once that almost single-handedly killed our momentum-building second drive. The sequence we've been discussing above where we couldn't convert. Failing to block Jones on what would have been an OT TD (though they would have had the chance to win and definitely would have gone for two).

There were areas where Kyle could have been better. But a lot of the stuff that truly tipped the balance is fluky and out of Kyle's control. If the ball doesn't hit Luter and we win, was it because of Kyle's coaching? If Kittle picked up McDuffie and we win, is it because of Kyle (granted the fact that it was Kittle and not McCaffrey back there is his fault). If Burford actually steps in front of Jones and we win, is it because of Kyle? And I haven't even mentioned that Greenlaw was playing out of his mind and completely shutting down Kelce before he went down with the most absurd injury in the history of the sport (possibly attributable to the **** practice field). And Burford shouldn't have been on the field at all but for an injury to Feliciano during the game.

So yeah, really tough pill to swallow. You can't get closer to winning one and not do it. But I'll stick with Kyle and the flaws because he's shown that he's one of the most capable HCs in the league time and again.

[clyde21]

anyone that wants Kyle out deserves to wallow in the bottom pits of the league for the next decade

[wco81]

49ers just won't win with Kyle.

If you want to accept a lower ceiling, that's fine.

They can extend his contract another 10 years and it still won't happen.

[clyde21]

49ers just won't win with Kyle.

If you want to accept a lower ceiling, that's fine.

They can extend his contract another 10 years and it still won't happen.

the idea that we "cant win" with a HC that has gotten us to TWO SBs so far in which we lost close ones to maybe the GOAT QB is absurd

[CharityStripe34]

Kyle's a very good coach. It would be idiotic to dump him. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener. Unless Lynch identified someone no one realized as a replacement, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

But I most assuredly agree with him needing to trust Brock more with calls at the LOS. Not every play is a perfect design, sometimes the defense will guess the right Tecmo Bowl play, lol.

[arich35]

49ers just won't win with Kyle.

If you want to accept a lower ceiling, that's fine.

They can extend his contract another 10 years and it still won't happen.

the idea that we "cant win" with a HC that has gotten us to TWO SBs so far in which we lost close ones to maybe the GOAT QB is absurd

People seem to forget how bad we use to have it. Sure lets fire a top 2-5 coach in the league and gamble on a guy that we have no idea if he will be nearly as successful. Do we not remember Chip Kelly, Jim Tomsula, Mike Singletary, Mike Nolan? I would much rather know we will compete every year (unless we have crazy injuries) than gamble on a young coach somewhere that he "might" be just a tad bit better.

[CrimsonCrew]

49ers just won't win with Kyle.

If you want to accept a lower ceiling, that's fine.

They can extend his contract another 10 years and it still won't happen.

That's just an insane conclusion. He came closer to winning the SB than any losing coach in the history of the game. He has taken his team - with at best middle-of-the-pack QB play until this season - to four conference championships and two super bowls in the past five years. But he just can't win? I don't see it. He may not win, again, as it's really hard to do. Can't? I don't see it.

Worth noting/reminding folks that Reid, the one coach you might clearly take over Shanahan now, went to the conference championships or the super bowl in '01, '02, '03, '04, and '08 in Philly and never won. He then lost in the playoffs in '13,'15, '16, '17, and '18 with the Chiefs before finally breaking through. He followed his first SB victory up with a SB loss and a conference championship loss in '20 and '21. Even the best in the business do a lot more losing in the playoffs than winning it all.

[wco81]

Look, I hope he proves me wrong.

But there have been plenty of very good coaches who get close but never pull it off.

I'm not necessarily saying fire him but if you keep him, it's with the expectation that the team will just be pretenders.

The window is going to close and then what, trust him to rebuild?

Mahomes is 28 and guys like Burrow are younger. Shanahan isn't beating those guys, unless he gets another couple of windfall trades like getting CMC.

[CrimsonCrew]

Look, I hope he proves me wrong.

But there have been plenty of very good coaches who get close but never pull it off.

I'm not necessarily saying fire him but if you keep him, it's with the expectation that the team will just be pretenders.

The window is going to close and then what, trust him to rebuild?

Mahomes is 28 and guys like Burrow are younger. Shanahan isn't beating those guys, unless he gets another couple of windfall trades like getting CMC.

These definitive statements are just insane. He can't rebuild the team? He won't beat these young QBs? He rebuilt the team when he came to it. Now he has a QB - granted that cuts both ways with the salary, but it's not like Jimmy was cheap.

And he's beaten Burrow. He's beaten Hurts. He's beaten Lawrence. He's beaten Herbert. He's beaten Love. Mahomes is really the one young QB he hasn't knocked off, and that's really hard to do.

[Harry Palmer]

Look, I hope he proves me wrong.

But there have been plenty of very good coaches who get close but never pull it off.

I'm not necessarily saying fire him but if you keep him, it's with the expectation that the team will just be pretenders.

The window is going to close and then what, trust him to rebuild?

Mahomes is 28 and guys like Burrow are younger. Shanahan isn't beating those guys, unless he gets another couple of windfall trades like getting CMC.

Every coach but one loses their team’s decisive game every year. Kyle has won more big games in the past few years than anyone but Andy. In his 2 SB’s he had us within a mistake or two of winning. Like with every other team in the league, there are weaknesses, and yes, those weaknesses not being present probably makes the mistakes less costly, but if your bar is a coach who builds a team without any weak spots, I don’t know what to tell you. He’s not perfect, but almost every team in the league would either immediately take him over who they have or give it very serious consideration.

His weaknesses bother me too, but man, it sounds here like you’re thinking with your heart and not your head. There was nothing inevitable about the games we finally lost, there are multiple things that had they gone better we win. Just as one for instance, Dre was locking Kelce up then blew out his leg crossing the sideline. How is that on Kyle?

[clyde21]

Look, I hope he proves me wrong.

But there have been plenty of very good coaches who get close but never pull it off.

I'm not necessarily saying fire him but if you keep him, it's with the expectation that the team will just be pretenders.

The window is going to close and then what, trust him to rebuild?

Mahomes is 28 and guys like Burrow are younger. Shanahan isn't beating those guys, unless he gets another couple of windfall trades like getting CMC.

ok, who are we replacing Shanahan with that will beat those guys? give us this long list of names broski.

[wco81]

Look, I hope he proves me wrong.

But there have been plenty of very good coaches who get close but never pull it off.

I'm not necessarily saying fire him but if you keep him, it's with the expectation that the team will just be pretenders.

The window is going to close and then what, trust him to rebuild?

Mahomes is 28 and guys like Burrow are younger. Shanahan isn't beating those guys, unless he gets another couple of windfall trades like getting CMC.

ok, who are we replacing Shanahan with that will beat those guys? give us this long list of names broski.

I would roll the dice with a young, hungry coordinator. I kind of fear that Seattle might have gotten one in McDonald.

Certainly after they have to cut some of these big contracts, it will be time to refill the cupboard, like the Rams have kind of started doing.


Again, I'll eat my words if he finally gets the ring in the next two seasons, before the bills come due. McVay was able to pull it off once, now he's going to try with mostly a young team other than Stafford.


And for York, watch out, Harbaugh may win it in the next few seasons while the 49ers are trying to reload after shedding the big salaries.

[clyde21]

Look, I hope he proves me wrong.

But there have been plenty of very good coaches who get close but never pull it off.

I'm not necessarily saying fire him but if you keep him, it's with the expectation that the team will just be pretenders.

The window is going to close and then what, trust him to rebuild?

Mahomes is 28 and guys like Burrow are younger. Shanahan isn't beating those guys, unless he gets another couple of windfall trades like getting CMC.

ok, who are we replacing Shanahan with that will beat those guys? give us this long list of names broski.

I would roll the dice with a young, hungry coordinator. I kind of fear that Seattle might have gotten one in McDonald.

Certainly after they have to cut some of these big contracts, it will be time to refill the cupboard, like the Rams have kind of started doing.


Again, I'll eat my words if he finally gets the ring in the next two seasons, before the bills come due. McVay was able to pull it off once, now he's going to try with mostly a young team other than Stafford.


And for York, watch out, Harbaugh may win it in the next few seasons while the 49ers are trying to reload after shedding the big salaries.

"rolling dice" isn't a plan, certainly not a plan to replace a HC that's been to four NFCCGs and two superbowls (and could've easily been 3 SBs if we weren't down to our 4th string QB)

[wco81]

If they don't win in the next two seasons, what then?

Keep trying?

I believe the upcoming season will be Kyle's 8th.

The 49ers are considered a contender until they have to blow up their payroll in a couple of seasons.

Or until we find out that some up and coming teams can beat them this season.


Trying to remember, has there ever been a HC who lasted a decade without winning a SB?

In any event a lot of people may be happy with being a high-level treadmill team. Supposedly York would not be happy but we'll see in the next couple of seasons.

[thesack12]

If they don't win in the next two seasons, what then?

Keep trying?

I believe the upcoming season will be Kyle's 8th.

The 49ers are considered a contender until they have to blow up their payroll in a couple of seasons.

Or until we find out that some up and coming teams can beat them this season.


Trying to remember, has there ever been a HC who lasted a decade without winning a SB?

In any event a lot of people may be happy with being a high-level treadmill team. Supposedly York would not be happy but we'll see in the next couple of seasons.

Dude, your bias against Kyle is forcing you to be incredibly simple minded with this topic.

You are holding Kyle to literally the highest possible standard and demand he meet that standard or else he's a complete failure in your eyes. You are allowing exactly ZERO context to enter the equation.

To answer your question, Andy Reid immediately comes to mind. Reid was in Philly for 14 years, only making 1 Super Bowl appearance which he didn't win. Then it took it until his 7th season in KC to finally win a Lombardi at age 61. I think maybe, Patrick Mahomes, may just have a little bit to say on why Reid is now being considered an all time great despite it taking 20 years for him to get his 1st ring.

Bill Cowher didn't win a championship until his 14th year in Pittsburgh at age 48. He had one other SB appearance in his 4th year.

John Fox also comes to mind. Dude spend 9 years in Carolina making 1 Super Bowl appearance in his 2nd season which he didn't win. Then went on to Denver and won a Lombardi in his 3rd year there at age 58. I think maybe Peyton Manning and an all time caliber defense had a little something to do with that.

Tony Dungy was in Tampa for 6 years and only had 2 total playoff wins, then goes to Indy and despite having prime Peyton Manning the entire time, it took 5 more years to win a Lombardi there at age 51. In Dungy's 7 years in Indy, they only got past the 1st round of the playoffs 1 other time.

a 38 year old, first time head coach, Kyle inherited a 2-14 team that was all but devoid of talent, including NOTHING at QB. Dude got that 2-14 team to a Super Bowl in his 3rd season. Also got to the Super Bowl with 2 different QB's, both of which were highly unheralded. So yeah, I would be fine with Kyle should a rebuilding situation arise.

So you are considering a legitimate perennial Super Bowl contender to be a "high level treadmill team?" Its quite obvious you don't realize how hard it is to win in the NFL, let alone do it consistently.

As for me personally, yes I'm pretty happy when going into a season my team is firmly among the select few that have realistic/legitimate chances of bringing home the Lombardi. Let alone holding that position despite not having a truly elite QB. And Kyle Shanahan is a very big reason why 49er fans have been able to go into the last 4 seasons with those aspirations, and will do so again next season for the 5th consecutive year.

Go ask a Jets fan how they would feel about fielding your version of a "high level treadmill team."

[CrimsonCrew]

Look, I hope he proves me wrong.

But there have been plenty of very good coaches who get close but never pull it off.

I'm not necessarily saying fire him but if you keep him, it's with the expectation that the team will just be pretenders.

The window is going to close and then what, trust him to rebuild?

Mahomes is 28 and guys like Burrow are younger. Shanahan isn't beating those guys, unless he gets another couple of windfall trades like getting CMC.

ok, who are we replacing Shanahan with that will beat those guys? give us this long list of names broski.

I would roll the dice with a young, hungry coordinator. I kind of fear that Seattle might have gotten one in McDonald.

Certainly after they have to cut some of these big contracts, it will be time to refill the cupboard, like the Rams have kind of started doing.


Again, I'll eat my words if he finally gets the ring in the next two seasons, before the bills come due. McVay was able to pull it off once, now he's going to try with mostly a young team other than Stafford.


And for York, watch out, Harbaugh may win it in the next few seasons while the 49ers are trying to reload after shedding the big salaries.

When has Harbaugh shown he can win the super bowl? He inherited a supremely talented team, did really well with it, to be fair, but then started to fall off when the talent started to diminish. Kyle inherited a garbage team, built it up, and has had his team in the mix every year. Harbaugh hasn't shown the ability to even stay with one team for an extended period.

And again, if the bet is super bowl or not, anyone would and should take the "not" position. That's true even of Andy Reid. It is hard to win the SB. That is perhaps the ultimate benchmark for a career review, but it shouldn't be the benchmark for whether or not to fire a coach.

Re: young, hungry coordinators, we've lost a few of those recently. None has had the success Kyle has, at least to date. Two of them got blown out in playoff losses.

[CrimsonCrew]

If they don't win in the next two seasons, what then?

Keep trying?

I believe the upcoming season will be Kyle's 8th.

The 49ers are considered a contender until they have to blow up their payroll in a couple of seasons.

Or until we find out that some up and coming teams can beat them this season.


Trying to remember, has there ever been a HC who lasted a decade without winning a SB?

In any event a lot of people may be happy with being a high-level treadmill team. Supposedly York would not be happy but we'll see in the next couple of seasons.

Dude, your bias against Kyle is forcing you to be incredibly simple minded with this topic.

You are holding Kyle to literally the highest possible standard and demand he meet that standard or else he's a complete failure in your eyes. You are allowing exactly ZERO context to enter the equation.

To answer your question, Andy Reid immediately comes to mind. Reid was in Philly for 14 years, only making 1 Super Bowl appearance which he didn't win. Then it took it until his 7th season in KC to finally win a Lombardi at age 61. I think maybe, Patrick Mahomes, may just have a little bit to say on why Reid is now being considered an all time great despite it taking 20 years for him to get his 1st ring.

Bill Cowher didn't win a championship until his 14th year in Pittsburgh at age 48. He had one other SB appearance in his 4th year.

John Fox also comes to mind. Dude spend 9 years in Carolina making 1 Super Bowl appearance in his 2nd season which he didn't win. Then went on to Denver and won a Lombardi in his 3rd year there at age 58. I think maybe Peyton Manning and an all time caliber defense had a little something to do with that.

Tony Dungy was in Tampa for 6 years and only had 2 total playoff wins, then goes to Indy and despite having prime Peyton Manning the entire time, it took 5 more years to win a Lombardi there at age 51. In Dungy's 7 years in Indy, they only got past the 1st round of the playoffs 1 other time.

a 38 year old, first time head coach, Kyle inherited a 2-14 team that was all but devoid of talent, including NOTHING at QB. Dude got that 2-14 team to a Super Bowl in his 3rd season. Also got to the Super Bowl with 2 different QB's, both of which were highly unheralded. So yeah, I would be fine with Kyle should a rebuilding situation arise.

So you are considering a legitimate perennial Super Bowl contender to be a "high level treadmill team?" Its quite obvious you don't realize how hard it is to win in the NFL, let alone do it consistently.

As for me personally, yes I'm pretty happy when going into a season my team is firmly among the select few that have realistic/legitimate chances of bringing home the Lombardi. Let alone holding that position despite not having a truly elite QB. And Kyle Shanahan is a very big reason why 49er fans have been able to go into the last 4 seasons with those aspirations, and will do so again next season for the 5th consecutive year.

Go ask a Jets fan how they would feel about fielding your version of a "high level treadmill team."

Kubiak was coaching Denver when they won.

[CrimsonCrew]

If they don't win in the next two seasons, what then?

Keep trying?

I believe the upcoming season will be Kyle's 8th.

The 49ers are considered a contender until they have to blow up their payroll in a couple of seasons.

Or until we find out that some up and coming teams can beat them this season.


Trying to remember, has there ever been a HC who lasted a decade without winning a SB?

In any event a lot of people may be happy with being a high-level treadmill team. Supposedly York would not be happy but we'll see in the next couple of seasons.

Flip side consideration: how many coaches have won a SB, then held on in the league for years despite not coming close again? Mike McCarthy leaps to mind. Won in 2010, hung around the Packers for seven more seasons without getting back, then went to Dallas and has been one of the great disappointments for four consecutive years. Mike Tomlin won the SB in 2005, but is still hanging onto his job. John Harbaugh won in 2012, but has been on the losing end of some of the epic disappointments in the playoffs. Should all those guys get canned? (McCarthy probably should; the others I would argue should not). Sean Payton won in 2011, but hasn't sniffed it since. Pete Carroll in 2014 and he hung on for another 9 years.

It's hard to get there. It's hard to win it. And it's hard to get back.

[thesack12]

Dude, your bias against Kyle is forcing you to be incredibly simple minded with this topic.

You are holding Kyle to literally the highest possible standard and demand he meet that standard or else he's a complete failure in your eyes. You are allowing exactly ZERO context to enter the equation.

To answer your question, Andy Reid immediately comes to mind. Reid was in Philly for 14 years, only making 1 Super Bowl appearance which he didn't win. Then it took it until his 7th season in KC to finally win a Lombardi at age 61. I think maybe, Patrick Mahomes, may just have a little bit to say on why Reid is now being considered an all time great despite it taking 20 years for him to get his 1st ring.

Bill Cowher didn't win a championship until his 14th year in Pittsburgh at age 48. He had one other SB appearance in his 4th year.

John Fox also comes to mind. Dude spend 9 years in Carolina making 1 Super Bowl appearance in his 2nd season which he didn't win. Then went on to Denver and won a Lombardi in his 3rd year there at age 58. I think maybe Peyton Manning and an all time caliber defense had a little something to do with that.

Tony Dungy was in Tampa for 6 years and only had 2 total playoff wins, then goes to Indy and despite having prime Peyton Manning the entire time, it took 5 more years to win a Lombardi there at age 51. In Dungy's 7 years in Indy, they only got past the 1st round of the playoffs 1 other time.

a 38 year old, first time head coach, Kyle inherited a 2-14 team that was all but devoid of talent, including NOTHING at QB. Dude got that 2-14 team to a Super Bowl in his 3rd season. Also got to the Super Bowl with 2 different QB's, both of which were highly unheralded. So yeah, I would be fine with Kyle should a rebuilding situation arise.

So you are considering a legitimate perennial Super Bowl contender to be a "high level treadmill team?" Its quite obvious you don't realize how hard it is to win in the NFL, let alone do it consistently.

As for me personally, yes I'm pretty happy when going into a season my team is firmly among the select few that have realistic/legitimate chances of bringing home the Lombardi. Let alone holding that position despite not having a truly elite QB. And Kyle Shanahan is a very big reason why 49er fans have been able to go into the last 4 seasons with those aspirations, and will do so again next season for the 5th consecutive year.

Go ask a Jets fan how they would feel about fielding your version of a "high level treadmill team."

Kubiak was coaching Denver when they won.

Ahh, you are right. Good call.

Kubiak is still a good example. 8 years in Houston with only 2 total playoff wins, then lands in Denver with historically good defense and Peyton Manning and wins a Lombardi his first year there. Although it is worth noting that Peyton was physically a shell of his former self that season, but his still elite brain was able to read/manipulate defenses.