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Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS

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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS 

Post#441 » by MVP2110 » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:08 pm

skones wrote:
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You can take it however you want, I went through and watched the videos RS uploaded and acknowledged which ones I thought were catchable and weren't catchable. I don't know what you mean for reasons that they are catchable or not, some hit him in the hands, some he needed to do a better job of fighting through defenders, some he mistimed his adjustment, etc. This is common stuff. You seem to think none of these are catchable, so my assumption is then if you went back and watched every Doubs contested catch opportunity you'd feel very similar no? Or am I wrong about that and you think Watson is just graded harsher then everyone else?


If a ball is thrown behind you and you're at a dead sprint, I think boiling it down to, "eh, you need to be better at adjusting" is a cop out in the highest. I think if you look at Doubs contested catch opportunities, those balls are just better throws with him being more open because he has a deeper route tree that he excels at than just a go. That's the context I've specifically been speaking to over and over.

We can acknowledge that Love forces balls in bad situations to Watson more than he does other receivers. I think that's a pretty obvious thing that we can all see. It is in that context that I'm viewing this rather than oh, PFF says this was a contested catch opportunity, and then making them all equal just because. In making all contested catch opportunities equal, you are actively turning a blind eye to the specificity of football.


So to clarify you do believe Watson is getting graded more harshly than other WRs are? If that's the case then I'll disagree with you but atleast I can understand your viewpoint
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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS 

Post#442 » by skones » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:23 pm

MVP2110 wrote:
skones wrote:
MVP2110 wrote:
You can take it however you want, I went through and watched the videos RS uploaded and acknowledged which ones I thought were catchable and weren't catchable. I don't know what you mean for reasons that they are catchable or not, some hit him in the hands, some he needed to do a better job of fighting through defenders, some he mistimed his adjustment, etc. This is common stuff. You seem to think none of these are catchable, so my assumption is then if you went back and watched every Doubs contested catch opportunity you'd feel very similar no? Or am I wrong about that and you think Watson is just graded harsher then everyone else?


If a ball is thrown behind you and you're at a dead sprint, I think boiling it down to, "eh, you need to be better at adjusting" is a cop out in the highest. I think if you look at Doubs contested catch opportunities, those balls are just better throws with him being more open because he has a deeper route tree that he excels at than just a go. That's the context I've specifically been speaking to over and over.

We can acknowledge that Love forces balls in bad situations to Watson more than he does other receivers. I think that's a pretty obvious thing that we can all see. It is in that context that I'm viewing this rather than oh, PFF says this was a contested catch opportunity, and then making them all equal just because. In making all contested catch opportunities equal, you are actively turning a blind eye to the specificity of football.


So to clarify you do believe Watson is getting graded more harshly than other WRs are? If that's the case then I'll disagree with you but atleast I can understand your viewpoint


Is there an inherent bias towards Watson on this? No. Are the balls thrown to him worse than others? Yes (either by ball placement or general decision making by Love). Ie. A chance at a play on the ball being 5% or 12% is not the same as a 50/50 ball, but they're all put into the same "catchable opportunity" bucket, which is a problem with the statistic as a whole. Thus if Watson is receiving lower value opportunities on "contested catch opportunities" he WOULD be graded more harshly by nature of all opportunities being placed blindly into those same buckets.
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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS 

Post#443 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:34 pm

I don't think anyone is going to change their mind on this 8-)

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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS 

Post#444 » by Dennis Reynolds » Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:02 pm

Knock off the personal attacks and take a break for awhile. You can agree or disagree with someone without being a jerk MD
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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS 

Post#445 » by M-C-G » Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:09 pm

Does anyone want to take the position that Watson is NOT a bottom quartile WR at adjusting to the ball? Forget all the other nonsense in this discussion, is anyone going to bat for Watson as a WR that can adjust to the ball even slightly below average?

I’d be kind of shocked if anyone took that position. This can easily be a BOTH problem and not an either / or scenario


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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS 

Post#446 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Nov 16, 2023 2:35 am

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Love must be reading the board and wanted to weigh in :)

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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS 

Post#447 » by stillgotgame » Thu Nov 16, 2023 8:29 pm

Love trying to encourage Watson. He sounds like a veteran QB helping out a struggling young receiver.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38907541/packers-qb-jordan-love-urges-wr-christian-watson-stay-confident

"My message to Christian is just keep your confidence, don't let any of that stuff ever [make] your confidence waver or anything like that," Love said. "I got complete trust in Christian. I know he knows this, but I trust all my receivers. The ball's going to come out regardless. Just keep that confidence."
"When you're losing, a lot of people would point fingers and things like that. It happens. It comes with the territory. He's a professional. He knows that. That's everybody in the locker room. I told him to keep that confidence up, keep making plays, and move on to the next one."
Watson, a second-round pick in 2022, has just 14 catches for 236 yards and a touchdown in six games; he missed the first three weeks with a hamstring injury. He came out of Sunday's game with the lowest catch rate (42%) of any receiver with at least 30 targets this season, according to ESPN Stats & Information.
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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS 

Post#448 » by MoMM » Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:41 pm

stillgotgame wrote:Love trying to encourage Watson. He sounds like a veteran QB helping out a struggling young receiver.

Love seems the perfect QB, the only problem is his accuracy, which is fundamental for a QB...

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