How much upside Biedrins and Ellis still have left ?

[mait]

OK I admit that it was a bad idea.


But to answer shucknjive I still think that BYNUM >>>> Andris Biedrins. And Kwames 9 mil cap room in next off season could have landed us a good FA.

[crzy]

This trade is garbage. Please stop posting trade ideas.

[KR4]

Biedrins is the quickest *big* in the league and Monta's the quickest in the league....Of course theyve got upside..Monta's showing more proggresion this season..but that's to be expected..He's got Sid the Squid, Richmond, Jack, Baron ..All kinds of coaching..Who does Biedrins have? Russel Fricken Turner

Even with the LOL emoticons, I think this might be your first serious post in a long time and I am totally cool with that.

I really hope I am unbiased when I say this but I think that both of these players have too much upside to let them go. Biedrins especially. I totally agree with Turk3d that they are holding him back to not have to give him a huge contract. Unfortunately, if that's the case, other NBA execs see the same thing and holding him back won't matter at all. The way Monta has developed this year has made me a believer that he can be great.

[turk3d]

OK I admit that it was a bad idea.
But to answer shucknjive I still think that BYNUM >>>> Andris Biedrins. And Kwames 9 mil cap room in next off season could have landed us a good FA.

Bynum maybe > than Biedrins at this point (I think it's due in large part to the coaching he's been getting) but he certainly is not >>>> as you put it. Heck he is not even >>>> than Curry or Zach Randolph. Huge exageration on your part which probably is the nature of this entire thread. Biedrins is easily a top 15 and probably top 10 Center in this league. In terms of numbers and comparisons with Bynum, in almost identical minutes although Bynum is outscoring him (12.3 to 10.9), Beans is edging him out in field goal percentage (63.8 - 62.0), and in rebounding (9.9-9.8 ). So I'd say they are very close. The biggest difference is that LA is utilizing him more as part of their offense than the Warriors are with Andris. Sportsline has them ranked 11 and 12 respectively in their list of Centers. You can't get any closer and of course Bynum has Kareem and Phil Jackson (who unlike Nellie, loves utilizing his big men).

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/playerran ... arseason/C

[old rem]

Biedrins is a lot better on D and that's the trend now for Centers. Ask aroud and Tyson Chandler is much more coveted than Brad Miller or Okur. If Curry wants out of NY..he probably has to buy his own bus ticket. LAL actually runs plays for Bynum on purpose.

...and yes,LAL DID ge a pretty high profile big man coach and then (gasp) actually ASSUMED that the coach they picked and the player they picked were good ideas and logically--they had to play Bynum and let him gain from experiance.

[migya]

Both Monta and Biedrins are still very young and yet both are starters and very important to the team. Monta has already shown he is an offensive force, it is the defense that he nees to focus on and improve now as he is not bad but not great either.

Biedrins is a good rebounder and shot blocker, both great needs of the team. His offensive game is still developing but he gets better every season and he will likely get better to the point where he can score 10-12 points per 30mins, good enough numbers on this very offensively talented team.

Problem with both is that their contracts are up and they both will need to resign. How much will both want is the thing and anymore than 9 million each per season and the team likely will let one go or trade one of them. I think they are both worth 9 million a year, heck they do more than Dunleavy ever did here. The team will not be able to have so many guys getting paid what they will be and thee will have to be changes otherwise the salary of the team will exceed 65 million

[FNQ]

Is it me or is Monta's defense actually getting worse?

Yet his, and the team's defensive efficiency, have gone up!?!?



Kudos Vaki for ignoring what it seems the rest of the board has figured out... my favorite moments of the game are when Monta wheels around to Al or Barnes (the usual culprits) and asks where they were instead of being on the low block Funnier is when they own up to it.... Monta's becoming a leader

[KR4]

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Yet his, and the team's defensive efficiency, have gone up!?!?



Kudos Vaki for ignoring what it seems the rest of the board has figured out... my favorite moments of the game are when Monta wheels around to Al or Barnes (the usual culprits) and asks where they were instead of being on the low block Funnier is when they own up to it.... Monta's becoming a leader

I see that too, he is really impressing me this season.

And your avatar is ridiculously obnoxious.

[FNQ]

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And your avatar is ridiculously obnoxious.

I was hammered when I put it up... cracked me up at the time

Does wear my patience though... When I find a nice Warriors dunk I'll put it up there...

[KR4]

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I was hammered when I put it up... cracked me up at the time

Does wear my patience though... When I find a nice Warriors dunk I'll put it up there...

HAHAHAHA....

BOOOOOOOOOOOM...HEAD SHOT!!!

[Thugleavy34]

Both of them play at premium positions, and have leaks in their game that will only plug up with time. Ellis has more star power out of the two, but I consider both of them about equal, at this point.

[scwarrior]

Ellis has a lot of "UPSIDE" while Biedrins just has a lot of "LENGTH"

[Souvlaki]

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Yet his, and the team's defensive efficiency, have gone up!?!?



Kudos Vaki for ignoring what it seems the rest of the board has figured out... my favorite moments of the game are when Monta wheels around to Al or Barnes (the usual culprits) and asks where they were instead of being on the low block Funnier is when they own up to it.... Monta's becoming a leader

Wow, you seriously draw some really illogical conclusions. Our defense was absolutely horrible when Jackson was not playing and Monta was getting the same amount of minutes. So now that Jackson is playing you want to say our defense is better because of Monta? Just stupid.

Monta's defense isn't horrible, but it is far too often a liability lately. You can only blame so much on players not rotating (Dunleavy used to do that a lot) and while it does happen far too frequently, Monta's poor defense can only be blamed on Monta. He's out of position a lot himself and gets beat far too often. When guys like Alston go for 22, I could care less if Monta scores 20.

You seem to be doing what you accused Buke fans of doing. You have blinders on when it comes to your favorite player.

[FNQ]

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Wow, you seriously draw some really illogical conclusions. Our defense was absolutely horrible when Jackson was not playing and Monta was getting the same amount of minutes. So now that Jackson is playing you want to say our defense is better because of Monta? Just stupid.

Monta's defense isn't horrible, but it is far too often a liability lately. You can only blame so much on players not rotating (Dunleavy used to do that a lot) and while it does happen far too frequently, Monta's poor defense can only be blamed on Monta. He's out of position a lot himself and gets beat far too often. When guys like Alston go for 22, I could care less if Monta scores 20.

You seem to be doing what you accused Buke fans of doing. You have blinders on when it comes to your favorite player.

Couldn't be because he was taking more of the teams shots, could it? When he drove on Monta, he drove rightinto Harrington or Biedrins... Monta did his job.

But by all means... the person that plays the same position on you, thats the best way to determine defensive effectiveness, even in a zone The blinders comment is only funnier when you realize that the guy(s) you want to harp on are Baron and Buke... Monta's one of the best at closing out on the team (being lightning fast has that drawback)....

BTW bud, since you have defined "lately" as when Jackson came back from his suspsension, although it was over a month ago, Ellis' weaknesses (guarding space, deciding which of two men to close out on) are masked because of Jackson coming back... what hasnt changed is the drive n dig... every Warrior defender does it, but it makes you angry to see Monta do it?

[Souvlaki]

Ugh. I guess playing a zone defense excuses all crappy defense in your opinion right? It's always the other guy's fault cause, hey, it's zone. Monta obviously has no lack of quickness. He lacks IQ. He's constantly double teaming the wrong guy, committing dumb fouls (3 free throws anyone?) and not fighting through screens well at all.

I still think Nelson's assessment is correct. Monta is a defensive liability, maybe less so than a year ago, but it just seems lately he's regressed.

[FNQ]

He's constantly double teaming the wrong guy, committing dumb fouls (3 free throws anyone?) and not fighting through screens well at all.

Watched the Warriors lately? They double team anyone once they get them to low block or baseline... their job is to force TOs, thats the premise of out defense...

And damn our 175 lb SG for not fighting through 230+ PF/Cs setting screens on him... lack of heart, makes him look stupid. He should try and plow right through those guys... he should know his teammates aren't going to pick up that guy....

[Souvlaki]

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Watched the Warriors lately? They double team anyone once they get them to low block or baseline... their job is to force TOs, thats the premise of out defense...

And damn our 175 lb SG for not fighting through 230+ PF/Cs setting screens on him... lack of heart, makes him look stupid. He should try and plow right through those guys... he should know his teammates aren't going to pick up that guy....

Oh, so now you're admitting his size is a defensive liability. Well that's progress I guess. I never said he has a lack of heart. I said he lacks IQ. Monta doubles up high on players that shouldn't be doubled at all. He's basically just out of position.

Anyway, we're not going to see eye to eye on this. I mean when you see the other team's guards torching us and you want to blame Biedrins?