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CDM_Stats wrote:

vvoland wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:An ideal offseason means Klay walks and CP3/Wiggins/JK are all dealt

Unless there's some homerun offer for a good player that we can't pass up, winning should be a minor concern over development and getting questions answered about the youth movement

If it's development over winning, why move on from JK?

Because there's not much development left.. people see athleticism and project that out. But what actually drives development is skill level. JK is missing crucial building blocks there

It seems a lot of people think athleticism means huge potential and while you can point to a lot of cases where athleticism helps a lot, you have to have the skills to make use of that athleticism gap. JK is a top end athlete, his burst, speed, explosion are all elite. But he's unable to use marry his handles with the burst to actually make use out of it in the half court. In the full court where he has a head full of steam, he looks great. I do wonder if Kerr allowed him to just back up to the half court like Giannis does and get a full head of steam what would happen. Could he actually build a way to get around the initial defender consistently? I actually think he does better when he has a size mismatch and he can shoot over the top or bully his way to the rim rather than using speed to get around bigger players. Like if we could play him at SG and have a line up of Steph, JK, Wiggins, Dray, Lauri I think both Wiggins and JK would do a lot better. As they do better with being bigger rather than having to use speed.

But really potential is about is there a skill that can you can rely on that defenses have to respect. Like between Klay and Barnes, Barnes is more athletic so a lot of people thought Barnes had more potential, but Klay has an uncanny shot that defenses actually have to respect. Once you're able to get someone to respect that skill then you can build counters to that. Look at the top players now Jokic, Luka, Embiid, Giannis only 1 of them really uses athleticism the rest are using skills that they enhance with their physical attributes.

EvanZ wrote:

xdrta+ wrote:I'll be disappointed if they just waive CP without making use of his flexible contract. Another early decision they need to make is about Looney, whose full contract guarantee date is 6/24, even before Paul's 6/28 date.

It's not really waiving him at all. The team has an option and can decide not to opt in, thus helping them get out of the tax and under the second apron. This is important for long term competitiveness because there are all kinds of non-monetary punitive measures in the next CBA that will take effect if they don't.

It's precisely the flexibility in CP3's contract that makes this move possible and I welcome it.

Only because you don't understand it. It's not an option, it's non-guaranteed. If they don't waive him (for whatever reason) by a certain date the contract is guaranteed. The flexibility comes from being able to partially guarantee the contract before that date in order to trade it. They wouldn't have that flexibility with an option.

xdrta+ wrote:

EvanZ wrote:

xdrta+ wrote:I'll be disappointed if they just waive CP without making use of his flexible contract. Another early decision they need to make is about Looney, whose full contract guarantee date is 6/24, even before Paul's 6/28 date.

It's not really waiving him at all. The team has an option and can decide not to opt in, thus helping them get out of the tax and under the second apron. This is important for long term competitiveness because there are all kinds of non-monetary punitive measures in the next CBA that will take effect if they don't.

It's precisely the flexibility in CP3's contract that makes this move possible and I welcome it.

Only because you don't understand it. It's not an option, it's non-guaranteed. If they don't waive him (for whatever reason) by a certain date the contract is guaranteed. The flexibility comes from being able to partially guarantee the contract before that date in order to trade it. They wouldn't have that flexibility with an option.

Distinction without a difference my guy. They can use the contract or not. It’s up to the team.

xdrta+ wrote:I'll be disappointed if they just waive CP without making use of his flexible contract. Another early decision they need to make is about Looney, whose full contract guarantee date is 6/24, even before Paul's 6/28 date.

I'm pretty sure that will happen unless they want to stay over the 2nd apron. And I don't think Lacob will stay above the 2nd apron unless a star is joining.

If they want to stay under the 2nd apron, 1 of CP3/Wiggs/Klay's salary need to go. Not much can be done w/ Wiggs as trading him will also mean salary coming back.

The only chance for us to not just lose CP3's flexible contract for nothing, is we attach a pick and trade him for a cheaper player.

We won't have much leeway until Klay's situation is clear though.

EvanZ wrote:

xdrta+ wrote:

EvanZ wrote:
It's not really waiving him at all. The team has an option and can decide not to opt in, thus helping them get out of the tax and under the second apron. This is important for long term competitiveness because there are all kinds of non-monetary punitive measures in the next CBA that will take effect if they don't.

It's precisely the flexibility in CP3's contract that makes this move possible and I welcome it.

Only because you don't understand it. It's not an option, it's non-guaranteed. If they don't waive him (for whatever reason) by a certain date the contract is guaranteed. The flexibility comes from being able to partially guarantee the contract before that date in order to trade it. They wouldn't have that flexibility with an option.

Distinction without a difference my guy. They can use the contract or not. It’s up to the team.

The difference is significant. Particularly to a team looking to move salary.

EvanZ wrote:

xdrta+ wrote:

EvanZ wrote:
It's not really waiving him at all. The team has an option and can decide not to opt in, thus helping them get out of the tax and under the second apron. This is important for long term competitiveness because there are all kinds of non-monetary punitive measures in the next CBA that will take effect if they don't.

It's precisely the flexibility in CP3's contract that makes this move possible and I welcome it.

Only because you don't understand it. It's not an option, it's non-guaranteed. If they don't waive him (for whatever reason) by a certain date the contract is guaranteed. The flexibility comes from being able to partially guarantee the contract before that date in order to trade it. They wouldn't have that flexibility with an option.

Distinction without a difference my guy. They can use the contract or not. It’s up to the team.

There's a significant difference between a team option and a non-guaranteed contract. If you don't want to understand the difference that's up to you.

Edit: On the chance that you do want to learn, teams often prefer the additional flexibility provided by non-guaranteed salary -- unlike a team option, the guarantee can change on a date of their choosing, they can guarantee partial amounts, and they can attach different conditions to the protection. The first two are particularly relevant to Paul's contract.

GunnerWRX wrote:

xdrta+ wrote:I'll be disappointed if they just waive CP without making use of his flexible contract. Another early decision they need to make is about Looney, whose full contract guarantee date is 6/24, even before Paul's 6/28 date.

I'm pretty sure that will happen unless they want to stay over the 2nd apron. And I don't think Lacob will stay above the 2nd apron unless a star is joining.

If they want to stay under the 2nd apron, 1 of CP3/Wiggs/Klay's salary need to go. Not much can be done w/ Wiggs as trading him will also mean salary coming back.

The only chance for us to not just lose CP3's flexible contract for nothing, is we attach a pick and trade him for a cheaper player.

We won't have much leeway until Klay's situation is clear though.

Not speaking for anyone, but I would assume that using CP3s contract as trade filler basically meaning Klay's getting paid very little or is out the door.. is a huge selling point for using CP3s contract as trade filler

CDM_Stats wrote:

GunnerWRX wrote:

xdrta+ wrote:I'll be disappointed if they just waive CP without making use of his flexible contract. Another early decision they need to make is about Looney, whose full contract guarantee date is 6/24, even before Paul's 6/28 date.

I'm pretty sure that will happen unless they want to stay over the 2nd apron. And I don't think Lacob will stay above the 2nd apron unless a star is joining.

If they want to stay under the 2nd apron, 1 of CP3/Wiggs/Klay's salary need to go. Not much can be done w/ Wiggs as trading him will also mean salary coming back.

The only chance for us to not just lose CP3's flexible contract for nothing, is we attach a pick and trade him for a cheaper player.

We won't have much leeway until Klay's situation is clear though.

Not speaking for anyone, but I would assume that using CP3s contract as trade filler basically meaning Klay's getting paid very little or is out the door.. is a huge selling point for using CP3s contract as trade filler

As a 2nd apron team we cannot aggregate salary I think. If so then CP3 cannot be a filler to be traded along with other outgoing players.

GunnerWRX wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:

GunnerWRX wrote:
I'm pretty sure that will happen unless they want to stay over the 2nd apron. And I don't think Lacob will stay above the 2nd apron unless a star is joining.

If they want to stay under the 2nd apron, 1 of CP3/Wiggs/Klay's salary need to go. Not much can be done w/ Wiggs as trading him will also mean salary coming back.

The only chance for us to not just lose CP3's flexible contract for nothing, is we attach a pick and trade him for a cheaper player.

We won't have much leeway until Klay's situation is clear though.

Not speaking for anyone, but I would assume that using CP3s contract as trade filler basically meaning Klay's getting paid very little or is out the door.. is a huge selling point for using CP3s contract as trade filler

As a 2nd apron team we cannot aggregate salary I think. If so then CP3 cannot be a filler to be traded along with other outgoing players.

That would be if Klay was re-signed. So before they make that hypothetical deal, they’d have to renounce their rights to Klay

CDM_Stats wrote:

GunnerWRX wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:
Not speaking for anyone, but I would assume that using CP3s contract as trade filler basically meaning Klay's getting paid very little or is out the door.. is a huge selling point for using CP3s contract as trade filler

As a 2nd apron team we cannot aggregate salary I think. If so then CP3 cannot be a filler to be traded along with other outgoing players.

That would be if Klay was re-signed. So before they make that hypothetical deal, they’d have to renounce their rights to Klay

What's your beef with Turner, by the way? You called him a paper tiger, but he's certainly a rim protector and a pretty good stretch big.

He's been on some bad Indy teams, particularly when playing with sabonis but certainly seems to be a driver of their turnaround.

vvoland wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:

GunnerWRX wrote:
As a 2nd apron team we cannot aggregate salary I think. If so then CP3 cannot be a filler to be traded along with other outgoing players.

That would be if Klay was re-signed. So before they make that hypothetical deal, they’d have to renounce their rights to Klay

What's your beef with Turner, by the way? You called him a paper tiger, but he's certainly a rim protector and a pretty good stretch big.

He's been on some bad Indy teams, particularly when playing with sabonis but certainly seems to be a driver of their turnaround.

literally did this yesterday.. in great detail

Just bring back KD

With the NBA's new emphasis on actually allowing teams to play defense, we should really be focusing on being more physical and defensively oriented. They're allowing so much more contact everywhere that team building taking advantage of that now would be beneficial moving forward.

Onus wrote:With the NBA's new emphasis on actually allowing teams to play defense, we should really be focusing on being more physical and defensively oriented. They're allowing so much more contact everywhere that team building taking advantage of that now would be beneficial moving forward.

I was thinking the same thought last night but then there is always a chance of it swinging back the other way. 143-125 scores were ridiculous but the NBA may not want it to be 93-89 either.

EvanZ wrote:Just bring back KD

I don't see that happening unless they trade Draymond, which is unlikely. I think there is still bad blood between those two, mostly on the KD side. Plus he's going to be 36 next year. They need to get better and KD would make them better, but doing it while getting older is pretty risky. They had better than expected health this year and still didn't even make the playoffs, let alone contend for anything. And Phoenix looks like they're going to flame out in the first round even with KD playing a starring role.

whatisacenter wrote:

Onus wrote:With the NBA's new emphasis on actually allowing teams to play defense, we should really be focusing on being more physical and defensively oriented. They're allowing so much more contact everywhere that team building taking advantage of that now would be beneficial moving forward.

I was thinking the same thought last night but then there is always a chance of it swinging back the other way. 143-125 scores were ridiculous but the NBA may not want it to be 93-89 either.

It's true. In the first 5 days of playin/playoffs this year, only 1 team broke 120 in 1 game. Last year in the same time period, there were 7. Still, the Warriors have been known as soft since Bogut and West left, we could use some more physicality regardless. Draymond has usually been the only one regarded as being a physical player for years and we need more (hopefully without the crazy). GP2 and Podz have some of that but they're more pesky than physical (plus GP2 is injured half the time anyway).

whatisacenter wrote:

Onus wrote:With the NBA's new emphasis on actually allowing teams to play defense, we should really be focusing on being more physical and defensively oriented. They're allowing so much more contact everywhere that team building taking advantage of that now would be beneficial moving forward.

I was thinking the same thought last night but then there is always a chance of it swinging back the other way. 143-125 scores were ridiculous but the NBA may not want it to be 93-89 either.

We’ll have to see how everyone feels after these playoffs especially once Lebron is out and stops whining about calls.

If you can do a sign-and-trade of Chris Paul for Isaac, you do it in a heartbeat.

I want Caruso if at all possible. A secondary creator seems needed, too, as well as a stretch-big. Not easy to get with our lack of assets, so we'd have to compromise a bit on quality and/or other factors (being overpaid, expiring contract, injury concerns) and hope for synergy and honestly a bit of luck.

This off-season is about putting the best team to win around Curry and Green (personally I'm done with him but he is still our second most important player and the franchise seems to want to ride with him, so I'll just accept that). It would be nice to keep some of our young players and develop them but we must not continue with the ‘two timelines’ idea just for the sake of it.

I read a piece on bleacher report about a trade proposal with the cavs

wiggs+tjd+1st round picks for Jarrett Allen

thoughts?