Warriors trade Poole, Rollins, Baldwin Jr., 2027 #2, 2030 protected #1 to Wizards for Chris Paul

[Onus]

yup and FTR, Sabonis is still a 2 edged-sword. Guy nearly put up a triple double and was still barely a net positive in tracking.. and was not one in the playoffs

Its kinda like stealing bases in MLB... 30 years ago, guys getting to 100 was somewhat routine and it was a necessary part of the game. Bunting was around. Before this past season (SBs are way up for some reason), SB leaders were in the 40s, teams didnt play smallball anymore, batting average gave way to OBP/OPS and guys that would have succeeded in the 90s are now phased out of the game, while .200 hitting sluggers that would have been stuck in AAA are now mainstays in MLB lineups

Evolution (and its not always pretty)

I'll also add offensive oriented 4s haven't really been a successful archetype throughout history. Dirk and maybe Giannis are probably the only real 4s that have been no 1 options and won a title. I guess you could say Duncan, but I'd classify him as a center. Dirk is a stretch 4. Giannis is probably closer to a center on offense, just not able to anchor a defense like your typical centers. Duncan plays more like a center and able to actually anchor a defense like a center.

As #1 options...not really, but keep in mind draymond isnt a #1. All star level pfs who can score have been integral parts of recent champions as top 3 guys: siakam, pau, love, KG, bosh (maybe he was a center at that point), AD

And then yea of course dirk and giannis as #1s

If for example karl malone was a #2 or #3 option..that is a pretty good option to have.

I agree having a good pf isn't a bad thing. I just don't think they can be your main thing as your no 1 option.

I also think Draymond needs a specific type of team to work as well, which may even be smaller than what Malone would need. A pf that needs the ball to be most effective but can't actually score isn't going to work in a lot of other teams. Not many stars would be willing to give up those touches to let draymond run offense.

[Twinkie defense]

I also think Draymond needs a specific type of team to work as well, which may even be smaller than what Malone would need. A pf that needs the ball to be most effective but can't actually score isn't going to work in a lot of other teams. Not many stars would be willing to give up those touches to let draymond run offense.

For sure Warriors have a unique scheme. Been pretty effective with it, too!

Of course more teams have been coopting the Warriors systems in recent years.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Dray is very replaceable - that’s why there are so many players with his skill set thriving. Versatile ace defenders that can also run a motion offense? Can’t turn around without bumping into 10 in the NBA, apparently

Never said there are Draymond clones. Said he is replaceable. Big difference.

Can compensate less defense with more points. Doesn’t have to be a dramatic dropoff in defense. Wouldn’t be as offensively handicapped when Looney is on the floor. Would have far less personal and technical fouls.

That is just a one-for-one trade. The wishful trade is a two-for-one i.e. trade Draymond + Kuminga for A.D. I’d rather take my chances with Street Clothes.

It doesnt have to be a dramatic drop-off in defense? Ok.. so there are lots of players who can defend 1-5 and QB a defense? Or are you saying that there are options out there who can simulate that impact on offense? If so.. who? How do we get them? I dont think you guys at all understand how important Draymond is, even though we've had stretches without him where our team offense and defense took significant hits..

That wishful trade would be great, but.. there's a reason its wishful.

Obviously the “QB” of our defense should have been benched this past season because we gave up the 2nd most points in the entire league. He played in 73 games and averaged a triple single.

Ah yes right…it was Poole’s fault. That’ll fix our defense. Add the great Chris Paul and we’re out of the defensive cellar.

[Twinkie defense]

Obviously the “QB” of our defense should have been benched this past season because we gave up the 2nd most points in the entire league. He played in 73 games and averaged a triple single.

Ah yes right…it was Poole’s fault. That’ll fix our defense. Add the great Chris Paul and we’re out of the defensive cellar.

Warriors had the League #1 defensive team rating in 2021-22 and were #6 in the playoffs in 2022-23 - right behind the Lakers, and ahead of the Heat.

There's no trophies for regular season results!

[Twinkie defense]

Swapping guys like Wiseman for GPII and CP3 for Jordan Poole - and getting Wiggins back - helps the Warriors' defense a lot. One guy can't do it all, but if you can defend at all five positions you're gonna be in good shape.

[CDM_Stats]

Never said there are Draymond clones. Said he is replaceable. Big difference.

Can compensate less defense with more points. Doesn’t have to be a dramatic dropoff in defense. Wouldn’t be as offensively handicapped when Looney is on the floor. Would have far less personal and technical fouls.

That is just a one-for-one trade. The wishful trade is a two-for-one i.e. trade Draymond + Kuminga for A.D. I’d rather take my chances with Street Clothes.

It doesnt have to be a dramatic drop-off in defense? Ok.. so there are lots of players who can defend 1-5 and QB a defense? Or are you saying that there are options out there who can simulate that impact on offense? If so.. who? How do we get them? I dont think you guys at all understand how important Draymond is, even though we've had stretches without him where our team offense and defense took significant hits..

That wishful trade would be great, but.. there's a reason its wishful.

Obviously the “QB” of our defense should have been benched this past season because we gave up the 2nd most points in the entire league. He played in 73 games and averaged a triple single.

Ah yes right…it was Poole’s fault. That’ll fix our defense. Add the great Chris Paul and we’re out of the defensive cellar.

yup, trading Poole for Paul certainly helps. I dont know if it would help as much as having our 2nd best defender and fellow defensive star Andrew Wiggins not miss half a season though. Or getting GP2 back, presumably healthy too

17th is the cellar now? Man you Johnny-come-latelies really have never had to deal with any adversity and it shows

[Scotty2Hotty]

It doesnt have to be a dramatic drop-off in defense? Ok.. so there are lots of players who can defend 1-5 and QB a defense? Or are you saying that there are options out there who can simulate that impact on offense? If so.. who? How do we get them? I dont think you guys at all understand how important Draymond is, even though we've had stretches without him where our team offense and defense took significant hits..

That wishful trade would be great, but.. there's a reason its wishful.

Obviously the “QB” of our defense should have been benched this past season because we gave up the 2nd most points in the entire league. He played in 73 games and averaged a triple single.

Ah yes right…it was Poole’s fault. That’ll fix our defense. Add the great Chris Paul and we’re out of the defensive cellar.

yup, trading Poole for Paul certainly helps. I dont know if it would help as much as having our 2nd best defender and fellow defensive star Andrew Wiggins not miss half a season though. Or getting GP2 back, presumably healthy too

17th is the cellar now? Man you Johnny-come-latelies really have never had to deal with any adversity and it shows

Paul for Poole might…and in this case, “might” is closer to no than yes…improve our defensive stats, but offensively? Not a chance.

My bad…we were ranked #21 out of 30 teams in defensive scoring at 116.6 PPG. #28 on the road at 121.5 PPG with only Houston and San Antonio in the rearview mirror. That’s cellar defense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-per-game

This Johnny-come-lately has been following hoops since the late 70s. Thanks Methuselah.

[CDM_Stats]

Obviously the “QB” of our defense should have been benched this past season because we gave up the 2nd most points in the entire league. He played in 73 games and averaged a triple single.

Ah yes right…it was Poole’s fault. That’ll fix our defense. Add the great Chris Paul and we’re out of the defensive cellar.

yup, trading Poole for Paul certainly helps. I dont know if it would help as much as having our 2nd best defender and fellow defensive star Andrew Wiggins not miss half a season though. Or getting GP2 back, presumably healthy too

17th is the cellar now? Man you Johnny-come-latelies really have never had to deal with any adversity and it shows

Paul for Poole might…and in this case, “might” is closer to no than yes…improve our defensive stats, but offensively? Not a chance.

My bad…we were ranked #21 out of 30 teams in defensive scoring at 116.6 PPG. #28 on the road at 121.5 PPG with only Houston and San Antonio in the rearview mirror. That’s cellar defense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-per-game

This Johnny-come-lately has been following hoops since the late 70s. Thanks Methuselah.

ok

So I'm just going to repeat back what it sounds like you're saying, in case you wanted to change thought processes or clear something up

You think that CP3 and Poole have a similar defensive impact
You think that Poole definitely has a more positive offensive impact than CP3
You gauge team defense by oPPG

Is all that correct?

[Scotty2Hotty]

yup, trading Poole for Paul certainly helps. I dont know if it would help as much as having our 2nd best defender and fellow defensive star Andrew Wiggins not miss half a season though. Or getting GP2 back, presumably healthy too

17th is the cellar now? Man you Johnny-come-latelies really have never had to deal with any adversity and it shows

Paul for Poole might…and in this case, “might” is closer to no than yes…improve our defensive stats, but offensively? Not a chance.

My bad…we were ranked #21 out of 30 teams in defensive scoring at 116.6 PPG. #28 on the road at 121.5 PPG with only Houston and San Antonio in the rearview mirror. That’s cellar defense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-per-game

This Johnny-come-lately has been following hoops since the late 70s. Thanks Methuselah.

ok

So I'm just going to repeat back what it sounds like you're saying, in case you wanted to change thought processes or clear something up

You think that CP3 and Poole have a similar defensive impact
You think that Poole definitely has a more positive offensive impact than CP3
You gauge team defense by oPPG

Is all that correct?

Damn do you live on this forum?

Correct, I do not see Paul providing a noticeable difference on defense vs Poole.

Correct, Paul will not come anywhere close to Poole’s 20.4 PPG this season.

i.e. this was an awful trade. I get Poole’s salary had to go, but do not understand trading for Paul with plenty of other 2nd team PGs available.

Defensive scoring is not the definitive be-all, end-all stat to gauge a defense on, but when Houston and San Antonio were the only two teams worse than you on the road in that category and you only won 12 games on the road… worst all-time by a defending champion to boot… with only Houston, San Antonio and Detroit worse on the road….. even us Johnny-come-latelies can add 2 + 2.

[CDM_Stats]

Paul for Poole might…and in this case, “might” is closer to no than yes…improve our defensive stats, but offensively? Not a chance.

My bad…we were ranked #21 out of 30 teams in defensive scoring at 116.6 PPG. #28 on the road at 121.5 PPG with only Houston and San Antonio in the rearview mirror. That’s cellar defense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-per-game

This Johnny-come-lately has been following hoops since the late 70s. Thanks Methuselah.

ok

So I'm just going to repeat back what it sounds like you're saying, in case you wanted to change thought processes or clear something up

You think that CP3 and Poole have a similar defensive impact
You think that Poole definitely has a more positive offensive impact than CP3
You gauge team defense by oPPG

Is all that correct?

Damn do you live on this forum?

Correct, I do not see Paul providing a noticeable difference on defense vs Poole.

Correct, Paul will not come anywhere close to Poole’s 20.4 PPG this season.

i.e. this was an awful trade. I get Poole’s salary had to go, but do not understand trading for Paul with plenty of other 2nd team PGs available.

Defensive scoring is not the definitive be-all, end-all stat to gauge a defense on, but when Houston and San Antonio were the only two teams worse than you on the road in that category and you only won 12 games on the road… worst all-time by a defending champion to boot… with only Houston, San Antonio and Detroit worse on the road….. even us Johnny-come-latelies can add 2 + 2.

I get notifications, and I'm actually not sure how to get rid of em.. embarrassing considering I'm working on data analysis stuff al day. Anyways..

If you believe CP3 is comparable to Poole offensively or defensively, and measure offensive effectiveness by PPG, and do not factor in pace when looking at defense.. thats really all I need to know. But its not a good way to actually evaluate the game so not sure why you've come in so hot about em. This ain't fantasy basketball.. if you are reducing it to simple things like you have, you are going to get simple answers, and those aren't accurate

[Bayside]

I struggle with conclusions that do not match eye test or analytics. This is the stuff or reddit.

[DaHef]

Paul for Poole might…and in this case, “might” is closer to no than yes…improve our defensive stats, but offensively? Not a chance.

What I did for offense is I looked at 4 key per game stats last year. (Their minutes per game were close so I think using a per game stat is fair.) Assists, Steals, Turnovers, Points. I added assists and steals and subtracted turnovers. I then multiplied this by 2.5. (Considering some possessions are 2 point and some are 3 I used a multiplier of 2.5.) I then added this to the ppg. For Poole I got 25.9 for CP I got 36.65.

I know this is unscientific but it at least takes into consideration more than just points scored.

[Bayside]

Pool probably will never be as effective and influence a game as a 38 year old Paul. They do not belong in the same sentence unless pool is part of a trade package. As is the case here.

[Scotty2Hotty]

ok

So I'm just going to repeat back what it sounds like you're saying, in case you wanted to change thought processes or clear something up

You think that CP3 and Poole have a similar defensive impact
You think that Poole definitely has a more positive offensive impact than CP3
You gauge team defense by oPPG

Is all that correct?

Damn do you live on this forum?

Correct, I do not see Paul providing a noticeable difference on defense vs Poole.

Correct, Paul will not come anywhere close to Poole’s 20.4 PPG this season.

i.e. this was an awful trade. I get Poole’s salary had to go, but do not understand trading for Paul with plenty of other 2nd team PGs available.

Defensive scoring is not the definitive be-all, end-all stat to gauge a defense on, but when Houston and San Antonio were the only two teams worse than you on the road in that category and you only won 12 games on the road… worst all-time by a defending champion to boot… with only Houston, San Antonio and Detroit worse on the road….. even us Johnny-come-latelies can add 2 + 2.

I get notifications, and I'm actually not sure how to get rid of em.. embarrassing considering I'm working on data analysis stuff al day. Anyways..

If you believe CP3 is comparable to Poole offensively or defensively, and measure offensive effectiveness by PPG, and do not factor in pace when looking at defense.. thats really all I need to know. But its not a good way to actually evaluate the game so not sure why you've come in so hot about em. This ain't fantasy basketball.. if you are reducing it to simple things like you have, you are going to get simple answers, and those aren't accurate

Analytics aside… Chris Paul is a horrible fit on a high pace, high scoring, move the ball offense. You literally could not pick up a slower-paced PG.

On top of being a bad fit schematically, he has a very poor self-righteous, entitled attitude.

I’m hoping he is trade bait to obtain Norman Powell in a 3-way trade w the Clippers & Sixers.

[Twinkie defense]

we were ranked #21 out of 30 teams in defensive scoring at 116.6 PPG. #28 on the road at 121.5 PPG

Scoring, lol - you know the Warriors had the fastest pace in the NBA, no?

[Twinkie defense]

I hated the Clippers but I never hated CP3. Frankly I kind of feared CP3. Blake Griffin and Doc Rivers I thought were clowns. But CP3...

I have a feeling there are going to be some new CP3 fans among the Warriors fanbase this season...

[xdrta+]

I have a feeling there are going to be some new CP3 fans among the Warriors fanbase this season...

As was said long ago about a baseball player, when he's on the other team you hate him, when he's on your team you hate him a little less.

[Nvnervous45]

Poole was unplayable in the playoffs. He was completely exposed vs the lakers. His iso crap didn't work because of the lakers big front court and he missed a ton of contested shots. He was fugley.

[jamesnamida]

Cp3 is just as bad of a defender as Poole at this point except he is 5'11.
His pg skills are still there but not his offense.
Not excited about what we got.

[Scotty2Hotty]

we were ranked #21 out of 30 teams in defensive scoring at 116.6 PPG. #28 on the road at 121.5 PPG

Scoring, lol - you know the Warriors had the fastest pace in the NBA, no?

Re-read it again. This time note the word in bold.