OT: SF Giants 2023

[tarantism]

This team is hard to watch. They stink.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Nvnervous45]

The offense is is two solo shots a game. The starting pitching is weak outside of cobb and webb. If we could have a mulligan on kevin gausman that could've helped big time. Injuries and no bona-fide star power on offense has killed this team. Problem is, next years free agency is really weak so our kids (luciano, matos) need to develop in a hurry, otherwise we'll be scratching for runs again next year.

[Nvnervous45]

A boatload of angels DFA'd . I wouldn't mind us picking up Hunter Renfroe or Lucas Giolito if they clear wavers down to us. Renfroe 's bat in the outfield could give us some pop, plus his strikeouts to walk ratio is almost even. Giolito could fill the roll of 4th starter and innings eater!

[tarantism]

A boatload of angels DFA'd . I wouldn't mind us picking up Hunter Renfroe or Lucas Giolito if they clear wavers down to us. Renfroe 's bat in the outfield could give us some pop, plus his strikeouts to walk ratio is almost even. Giolito could fill the roll of 4th starter and innings eater!

Giolito feels like a Giants type of guy, but does he fall to us? He had a market at the deadline. Seems like a natural fit, and maybe if we're lucky they'll DFA Wood.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Nvnervous45]

This is probably the worst offensive team I've seen as a Giants fan. So frustrating relying on joc Pedersen as our 3 hitter and haniger, and jd Davis as the heart of the order. It's a far cry from the will clark, kevin Mitchell, and Matt Williams days.

[wco81]

Most of the contact thEy make are like bail out swings so weak grounders, pop outs.

Not many “loud outs.”

They’ve given up.

Who’s the batting instructor? The coaches are putting up with weak effort.

[B-King]

Farhan has one more year before I start screaming he has to go. I understand that he had to purge an aging roster and rebuild the farm system, but his inability to attract a top tier free agent is a serious problem. This is another wasted year and the rebuild of the MLB roster has not progressed. Really tired of watching us shop in the bargain bin for talent.

[tal57]

[quote="B-King"]Farhan has one more year before I start screaming he has to go. I understand that he had to purge an aging roster and rebuild the farm system, but his inability to attract a top tier free agent is a serious problem. This is another wasted year and the rebuild of the MLB roster has not progressed. Really tired of watching us shop in the bargain bin for talent.[/quote

Attendance had declined this year from last. Where do you think Zaidi is going to shop with the declined attendance if he was already dumpster diving with the better one. He'll get a couple of albatross contracts off the books this year but only to cover the reduced attendance. Where is he going to get new money to attract anything remotely decent when he'll have to find 50 cents on the dollar "talent".

[B-King]

Farhan has one more year before I start screaming he has to go. I understand that he had to purge an aging roster and rebuild the farm system, but his inability to attract a top tier free agent is a serious problem. This is another wasted year and the rebuild of the MLB roster has not progressed. Really tired of watching us shop in the bargain bin for talent.[/quote

Attendance had declined this year from last. Where do you think Zaidi is going to shop with the declined attendance if he was already dumpster diving with the better one. He'll get a couple of albatross contracts off the books this year but only to cover the reduced attendance. Where is he going to get new money to attract anything remotely decent when he'll have to find 50 cents on the dollar "talent".

The Giants payroll has gone down significantly year after year and there is money to be spent. He purged the roster of the bloated contracts and never brought in any foundation pieces. He made a serious miscalculation on Judge. The roster is so bad that Judge had no real intentions of coming over. The process will repeat next year chasing Ohtani.

[wco81]

Zaidi said recently that they have to believe the players who performed well in the first half could still get hot and regain that form.

But the team keeps sinking further and further, offense becoming more and more anemic.

[Nvnervous45]

I wish I could fire this team. So frustrating.

[wco81]

Well they are winning 8-0 at Colorado so they might salvage 1 win out of a 4-game series in which they needed to win at least 3 out of 4 times.

Not out of the playoffs but it’s pointless.

Question is what they’re going to do in the offseason. Some talk about trying to sign Bellinger but that could mean they won’t even try for Ohtani, at least bid the price up. Too bad with his arm problems, his future as pitcher is cloudy.

But big hitters were already leery of this stadium, whatever it’s called these days. But a team which collapsed after this ASB, without any promising prospects, free agents may steer clear unless the Giants overpay, which isn’t likely.

[Nvnervous45]

Right now as I see it we have long-term options with Estrada at 2nd, Bailey at catcher, and yastremski in center. Other than that we have to pray that luciano, matos, and Schmidt turn out.
The problem is that if we are going to keep up with the likes of the Braves and the Dodgers we're going to need some star power on offense like betts, freeman, ronald acuna Jr, Matt Olsen etc.
We have played the moneyball angle the last few years and it's paid minor dividends, but now is the time for the farm we invested in these last several years to prove it's worth. If not, we might be in for more joc Pedersen, michael conforto, lamonte wade, jd. Davis, and mitch Haniger in the next few years.

[tarantism]

Yaz is going to be 34 and Estrada is just meh. Bailey has come down from his hot start but his defensive prowess alone makes him a keeper, and you gotta love the switch hitting as well.

In my opinion, Kapler needs to be the fall guy for what has happened to us in the second half. Feels like he's lost the team at this point and this team shows major symptoms of needing a shake up.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[wco81]

Either the first half was a mirage or to some extent the hitters have quit.

Zaidi said he hoped the performance of the first half would re-emerge. It never did.

It's kind of like 2015 or 2016 season, which also had a big second half collapse.

Did they just turn to **** or they were never such good hitters?

Someone said recently that Flores, who's had a nice season statistically, is a good player but he should not be your top hitter.

That's what I think about a lot of the lineup, they're at best platoon guys (like Yaz should be), not your mainline starters.

Zaidi probably hoped he'd get a good contract year performances from Hanigar and Conforto. So he thought he'd get bargain FA contracts. Meanwhile Gaussman has had a good year but Rodon has had a bad year for the Yankees so it's a crapshoot, signing free agents.

Really just goes to show the only thing teams can control is the farm system, developing your own talent and then getting good production out of them under cost controlled contracts.

But the Giants haven't been able to do that for now almost a decade.

Zaidi and Kapler options picked up for 2024 season. I've been reading McCovey Chronicles a bit. Some people claimed that the ownership aren't really interested in winning, just doing enough to keep the attendance up a certain level. But attendance has declined. They really didn't get any boost in the 107-win season or afterwards. So payroll is likely to decline, though there is talk that they will bid on some free agents. But they're not going to do anything like the Padres and try to contend.

[Nvnervous45]

Estrada is one of the best 2nd basemen in the game, so not meh. Bailey is a flat out stud behind the dish and good enough offensively as a catcher. Those positions are set. What we need is help from the traditional hitting positions like 3rd base, left field, and 1st base. Outside of 1st they have been abysmal coupled with a historically bad season at short-stop and we're sunk.
Dh has been bad as well.

[HiRez]

It’s weird, I used to not mind watching the Giants even when they were bad. But now it’s honestly hard to get through most games.

[Samurai]

Giants fire Gabe Kapler. Can't say I'm disappointed, although I gotta think Farhan Zaidi has a big share of the responsibility for building out a roster largely devoid of playoff-caliber talent. While the roster largely under-performed (with a couple of exceptions), Kapler is the one responsible for squeezing out what talent there is and it would be hard to say that he was able to get the talent previously displayed by the likes of Conforto, Pederson, crawford, Slater, Davis and Haniger in the optimal manner to succeed. Giants have to be among the most boring (and slowest) team to watch so Zaidi needs to find the right talent and hire a manager who will be able to better squeeze the juice out of the roster we get.

[wco81]

Giants fire Gabe Kapler. Can't say I'm disappointed, although I gotta think Farhan Zaidi has a big share of the responsibility for building out a roster largely devoid of playoff-caliber talent. While the roster largely under-performed (with a couple of exceptions), Kapler is the one responsible for squeezing out what talent there is and it would be hard to say that he was able to get the talent previously displayed by the likes of Conforto, Pederson, crawford, Slater, Davis and Haniger in the optimal manner to succeed. Giants have to be among the most boring (and slowest) team to watch so Zaidi needs to find the right talent and hire a manager who will be able to better squeeze the juice out of the roster we get.

Basically Zaidi is trying to do the same thing Billy Beane tried, but with a higher payroll.

Ten years ago, Giants were one of the highest revenue teams in the majors, when the park was new. I don't know if that's still the case with the steady decline in attendance the last 5 years or so. The pandemic really hurt but I believe the decline was occurring before the pandemic.

Seen some comments on McCovey Cove that the owner doesn't care about winning, just being profitable.

Yet their payroll even this year was higher than the MLB average.


I wonder if Zaidi was the one who technically fired Kapler or the owners fired him but it's a message that Zaidi has to produce results.

Problem with Zaidi is that other POBO and GMs know the same stuff he does, to try to dumpster dive for hidden gems. Except they've done better at drafting and developing and finding the free agents to perform. Other than 2021 and Rodon, Zaidi hasn't been able to do that.

I don't know if he has had a chance to rebuild the farm system or he wasn't given that chance or if that's not within his competency, he just uses analytics to find undervalued players but as far as hiring the right developmental coaches, maybe that's not something he's good at.

It may just be that the Giants won't sniff another WS until they get new ownership. But it's not like the NBA where billionaires are lining up to buy franchises, because baseball struggles to attract fan interest.

[B-King]

Giants fire Gabe Kapler. Can't say I'm disappointed, although I gotta think Farhan Zaidi has a big share of the responsibility for building out a roster largely devoid of playoff-caliber talent. While the roster largely under-performed (with a couple of exceptions), Kapler is the one responsible for squeezing out what talent there is and it would be hard to say that he was able to get the talent previously displayed by the likes of Conforto, Pederson, crawford, Slater, Davis and Haniger in the optimal manner to succeed. Giants have to be among the most boring (and slowest) team to watch so Zaidi needs to find the right talent and hire a manager who will be able to better squeeze the juice out of the roster we get.

Basically Zaidi is trying to do the same thing Billy Beane tried, but with a higher payroll.

Ten years ago, Giants were one of the highest revenue teams in the majors, when the park was new. I don't know if that's still the case with the steady decline in attendance the last 5 years or so. The pandemic really hurt but I believe the decline was occurring before the pandemic.

Seen some comments on McCovey Cove that the owner doesn't care about winning, just being profitable.

Yet their payroll even this year was higher than the MLB average.


I wonder if Zaidi was the one who technically fired Kapler or the owners fired him but it's a message that Zaidi has to produce results.

Problem with Zaidi is that other POBO and GMs know the same stuff he does, to try to dumpster dive for hidden gems. Except they've done better at drafting and developing and finding the free agents to perform. Other than 2021 and Rodon, Zaidi hasn't been able to do that.

I don't know if he has had a chance to rebuild the farm system or he wasn't given that chance or if that's not within his competency, he just uses analytics to find undervalued players but as far as hiring the right developmental coaches, maybe that's not something he's good at.

It may just be that the Giants won't sniff another WS until they get new ownership. But it's not like the NBA where billionaires are lining up to buy franchises, because baseball struggles to attract fan interest.

Sounds like Zaidi made the recommendation to move on from Kapler and ownership approved. Not really laying the blame on Kapler. You can't win in poker with crap cards.

Not really seeing a path for Zaidi to make past another year. This roster needs a major overhaul and I doubt that we are able to do so and be more competitive. It would be more entertaining if we bring up the youngsters than watching the retreads.