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Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think?

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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#61 » by buzzkilloton » Wed May 8, 2024 2:40 pm

A_dub06 wrote:
theBigLip wrote:Wheth.


We’ve already blown it. Weaver has had multiple opportunities to trade players and get assets in the form of picks but instead digs his heels in, overvalues players and lets the opportunity pass by. Yeah we have cap space but this isn’t 2015 let alone 2020 where cap space actually had value. Cap space is far less valuable now and teams have smartened up with trading valuable 1wt round picks just to shed salary.

Ingram is not a solution, Lavine is not a solution, was kindve hoping the wolves would flame out and want to get cheaper shedding Kat and his huge contract given they have Reid but with the wolves performing as well as they have the owner may be more prepared to pay the tax thinking they are close to a championship.

The biggest issue is that there’s no clear path to improving outside of internal development once we make one or two moves. Rebuilding teams are supposed to prioritise asset building as well as development and we’ve done both poorly. The decisions were compounded with our poor outcome of the lottery, but weaver doesn’t think two or three steps ahead and only what’s directly in front of him, and even then through an idiot lens



The holding assets too long to where they start to lose value drives me nuts. Troy even admitted that was the case with BB. I'm sure we could of ended up getting more for Grant as well. News flash good players have more value when you trade them with more years on their contracts.

Also agree on KAT. It was mind boggling to me that some fans thought he would be a bad pickup. Kat would of been such a great fit with Ausar+Cade and his game is going to age great. Obv no way the Wolves letting him walk now.

I do agree its bleak here but I still think we have a small chance to turn it around now that Troy will have a boss watching his moves. That small chance is going to require a huge year 3 jump from Cade and Ausar coming back in year two being capable of hitting a open shot. Then maybe someone hits the market were not aware of now and we go after them rather then blow the cap on mid FAs.

I know some want to do nothing and just continue building through the draft. I get it that but were going to be spending this cap space regardless. Also for our franchise of having any hope Cades going to have to make improvements that make him good enough to push us out of the bottom 3 of the lotto. Maybe we turn into like a bottom 8 team and get some lotto luck and hit Flagg or something its possible. Obv not likely it works out but possible.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#62 » by Kalamazoo317 » Wed May 8, 2024 2:43 pm

I'll go on record as being against blowing it up. Being at the top of the draft hasn't gained us much at all and the losing culture has only made us worse. I'm not favoring bad contracts that kill our longterm options, but I do want floor raising, competent players around Cade (and Ausar) that put them in position to develop well and succeed. And I do want to explore trade options on Duren and Ivey, because I really doubt their longterm fits and prefer to sell while their potential is still appealing enough to suitors.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#63 » by NYPiston » Wed May 8, 2024 3:01 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:I'll go on record as being against blowing it up. Being at the top of the draft hasn't gained us much at all and the losing culture has only made us worse. I'm not favoring bad contracts that kill our longterm options, but I do want floor raising, competent players around Cade (and Ausar) that put them in position to develop well and succeed. And I do want to explore trade options on Duren and Ivey, because I really doubt their longterm fits and prefer to sell while their potential is still appealing enough to suitors.


Did you copy and paste my post? :wink:
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#64 » by MotownMadness » Wed May 8, 2024 3:05 pm

buzzkilloton wrote:
A_dub06 wrote:
theBigLip wrote:Wheth.


We’ve already blown it. Weaver has had multiple opportunities to trade players and get assets in the form of picks but instead digs his heels in, overvalues players and lets the opportunity pass by. Yeah we have cap space but this isn’t 2015 let alone 2020 where cap space actually had value. Cap space is far less valuable now and teams have smartened up with trading valuable 1wt round picks just to shed salary.

Ingram is not a solution, Lavine is not a solution, was kindve hoping the wolves would flame out and want to get cheaper shedding Kat and his huge contract given they have Reid but with the wolves performing as well as they have the owner may be more prepared to pay the tax thinking they are close to a championship.

The biggest issue is that there’s no clear path to improving outside of internal development once we make one or two moves. Rebuilding teams are supposed to prioritise asset building as well as development and we’ve done both poorly. The decisions were compounded with our poor outcome of the lottery, but weaver doesn’t think two or three steps ahead and only what’s directly in front of him, and even then through an idiot lens



The holding assets too long to where they start to lose value drives me nuts. Troy even admitted that was the case with BB. I'm sure we could of ended up getting more for Grant as well. News flash good players have more value when you trade them with more years on their contracts.

Also agree on KAT. It was mind boggling to me that some fans thought he would be a bad pickup. Kat would of been such a great fit with Ausar+Cade and his game is going to age great. Obv no way the Wolves letting him walk now.

I do agree its bleak here but I still think we have a small chance to turn it around now that Troy will have a boss watching his moves. That small chance is going to require a huge year 3 jump from Cade and Ausar coming back in year two being capable of hitting a open shot. Then maybe someone hits the market were not aware of now and we go after them rather then blow the cap on mid FAs.

I know some want to do nothing and just continue building through the draft. I get it that but were going to be spending this cap space regardless. Also for our franchise of having any hope Cades going to have to make improvements that make him good enough to push us out of the bottom 3 of the lotto. Maybe we turn into like a bottom 8 team and get some lotto luck and hit Flagg or something its possible. Obv not likely it works out but possible.

Thats what im hoping for

A nice improvement in the W/L column but still be picking in that 7-8 range to have a shot at Flagg or Bailey etc ..
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#65 » by Kalamazoo317 » Wed May 8, 2024 6:40 pm

NYPiston wrote:
Kalamazoo317 wrote:I'll go on record as being against blowing it up. Being at the top of the draft hasn't gained us much at all and the losing culture has only made us worse. I'm not favoring bad contracts that kill our longterm options, but I do want floor raising, competent players around Cade (and Ausar) that put them in position to develop well and succeed. And I do want to explore trade options on Duren and Ivey, because I really doubt their longterm fits and prefer to sell while their potential is still appealing enough to suitors.


Did you copy and paste my post? :wink:


Nah, it's just a rational direction.

Of course, it all starts with whatever HOBO we get in here to run the show.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#66 » by zeebneeb » Thu May 9, 2024 8:50 pm

This **** clown show franchise. Three teams have fired their coaches, and now the Suns have fired Vogel. Teams don't accept mediocrity, but Detroit thrives in the sewer.

Pistons still sitting on their hands, doing absolutely nothing.

It is just unreal how much of a dumpster fire the whole organization is.

DO SOMETHING ALREADY WTF.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#67 » by joedumars1 » Thu May 9, 2024 9:49 pm

zeebneeb wrote:This **** clown show franchise. Three teams have fired their coaches, and now the Suns have fired Vogel. Teams don't accept mediocrity, but Detroit thrives in the sewer.

Pistons still sitting on their hands, doing absolutely nothing.

It is just unreal how much of a dumpster fire the whole organization is.

DO SOMETHING ALREADY WTF.

Tom Gores it’s very sad.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#68 » by theBigLip » Thu May 9, 2024 10:12 pm

zeebneeb wrote:This **** clown show franchise. Three teams have fired their coaches, and now the Suns have fired Vogel. Teams don't accept mediocrity, but Detroit thrives in the sewer.

Pistons still sitting on their hands, doing absolutely nothing.

It is just unreal how much of a dumpster fire the whole organization is.

DO SOMETHING ALREADY WTF.


Free agency doesn’t start until basically July. Of course, there should be lots of “unofficial” contact going on w the agents of the FAs that we intend to target.

We do get to find out if we secure the #5 pick this Sunday with the Draft Lottery.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#69 » by zeebneeb » Thu May 9, 2024 11:05 pm

theBigLip wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:This **** clown show franchise. Three teams have fired their coaches, and now the Suns have fired Vogel. Teams don't accept mediocrity, but Detroit thrives in the sewer.

Pistons still sitting on their hands, doing absolutely nothing.

It is just unreal how much of a dumpster fire the whole organization is.

DO SOMETHING ALREADY WTF.


Free agency doesn’t start until basically July. Of course, there should be lots of “unofficial” contact going on w the agents of the FAs that we intend to target.

We do get to find out if we secure the #5 pick this Sunday with the Draft Lottery.
You son of a...

I can't believe you went there. :lol:
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#70 » by SuperBad » Thu May 9, 2024 11:25 pm

Better to assume 5 than be disappointed.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#71 » by bstein14 » Thu May 9, 2024 11:42 pm

Not sure other GMs will even waste their time talking with Detroit about trades once we know our pick in a few days... since they likely know its out of Weaver's hands as to what we're doing with our pick.

It feels like Gores needs to make a decision soon or else we might miss some opportunities leading up to the draft. Not to mention other GMs or front office people aren't likely sinking days into scouting top 5 prospects if they are picking near the end of the first round. We need someone who is putting in work to make sure we get the right pick. If we wait til June to hire someone to be the top guy final say person in the entire franchise on everything basketball related we're setting him up to fail his first draft and possibly entire first offseason.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#72 » by theBigLip » Fri May 10, 2024 1:05 am

Do you think HOBO is taking over, or just being a kind of consigliere to Gores?
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#73 » by Snakebites » Fri May 10, 2024 6:10 am

theBigLip wrote:Do you think HOBO is taking over, or just being a kind of consigliere to Gores?

I think we’ll know that or at least have some idea of it based on who is hired.

I’d it’s a Tellem buddy (or, heaven forbid, Casey) then it’s probably the latter.

If it’s a serious executive without clear ties to the current group it’s probably (hopefully) the former.

The former is really our only hope of it making any difference.

To me if they don’t have the power to fire guys like Weaver or Monty they are a “Head” in name only. I pray that’s not the case.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#74 » by mattao313 » Fri May 10, 2024 11:02 am

Why even keep Weaver makes no sense? lol guy is a average talent evaluator and trash at everything else get him out of here.

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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#75 » by Moses ShamMoses » Fri May 10, 2024 11:04 am

HOBO lol....i think that about sums up our confidence in this ownership to find a competent president :D
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#76 » by BDM22 » Fri May 10, 2024 12:22 pm

mattao313 wrote:Why even keep Weaver makes no sense? lol guy is a average talent evaluator and trash at everything else get him out of here.

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It really feels to me like Gores is scared to fire people. Casey got "promoted to the front office". Now Gores is bringing in someone above Weaver that he probably hopes will fire Troy for him and maybe Monty too lol
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#77 » by Kalamazoo317 » Fri May 10, 2024 12:51 pm

BDM22 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:Why even keep Weaver makes no sense? lol guy is a average talent evaluator and trash at everything else get him out of here.

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It really feels to me like Gores is scared to fire people. Casey got "promoted to the front office". Now Gores is bringing in someone above Weaver that he probably hopes will fire Troy for him and maybe Monty too lol


Yeah, unusual for someone who's managed to become so wealthy, but Gores seems like he might be too nice to hold folks accountable?
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#78 » by JNewton » Fri May 10, 2024 12:57 pm

How Troy was not fired in December I will never understand. That's he's STILL here after the season ended is downright laughable. He should be gone regardless of a search for a new lead executive.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#79 » by MotownMadness » Fri May 10, 2024 2:31 pm

JNewton wrote:How Troy was not fired in December I will never understand. That's he's STILL here after the season ended is downright laughable. He should be gone regardless of a search for a new lead executive.

He kinda had the freedom to tank since hes been here. His roster isn't developing together at all though.
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Re: Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think? 

Post#80 » by Canadafan » Fri May 10, 2024 2:54 pm

I like beef Stew lol

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