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JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Stawman?

You mean like calling Lauri an All-Star when before the trade, he was just that guy we got by redirecting a crappy late first round pick we got for LNJ to Chicago?

No ... details matter. Like for instance contract length.

So, my bad for not including the fact that Mitchell was under contract for 3 more seasons at the time he was traded.

The Deron Williams trade is likely the closest to where we sit now with Mitchell given he had 2 years left when he was covertly traded to the Nets for Favors (3rd overall pick), Harris (5th overall pick), and two future firsts.

If in another year, we decide to trade him for another team's starting back-court, let's hope it's not the modern equivalent of Stevie Francis and Cutino Mobley.

Lauri is an All-Star though lol

I mean a back court in their prime wouldn't be awful but with Garland and Strus ability to play 2, ain't no way.

Lauri is an All-Star for the Jazz, but he was a lot closer to late first round pick value when we traded him.

You called Agbaji a lottery pick, and yes, he technically was ... but that's not an honest way of describing a player who may have fallen in to the 20's if the Cavs weren't so desperate for 3&D wing.

It's not that hard to get the details right. We still paid a lot for Mitchell, but we still did it without touching a top-3 player or asset on the team.

It doesn't matter how you slice and dice it, it was an overpay.

Mitchell was not needed on this team. The cornerstones are currently 22 and 23. Mitchell is redundant.

Ainge owns 5 consecutive of the Cavs drafts and he took the rights to a 6th draft.

At least the other teams for the criteria you laid out got the main guy plus other assets, all the Cavs received was Mitchell.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:Lauri is an All-Star though lol

I mean a back court in their prime wouldn't be awful but with Garland and Strus ability to play 2, ain't no way.

Lauri is an All-Star for the Jazz, but he was a lot closer to late first round pick value when we traded him.

You called Agbaji a lottery pick, and yes, he technically was ... but that's not an honest way of describing a player who may have fallen in to the 20's if the Cavs weren't so desperate for 3&D wing.

It's not that hard to get the details right. We still paid a lot for Mitchell, but we still did it without touching a top-3 player or asset on the team.

It doesn't matter how you slice and dice it, it was an overpay.

Mitchell was not needed on this team. The cornerstones are currently 22 and 23. Mitchell is redundant.

Ainge owns 5 consecutive of the Cavs drafts and he took the rights to a 6th draft.

At least the other teams for the criteria you laid out got the main guy plus other assets, all the Cavs received was Mitchell.

Best I can tell, the Nets only got Deron Williams in that trade, and again, he was only the closest in value to Mitchell with 2 years left on his contract. The Jazz also reportedly kept that trade on the down low to avoid Williams finding out and trying to force his way somewhere, but also avoiding open bidding.

Not making any move at all was certainly an option for the Cavs, but they had a unique opportunity and window to add a top-15 players without touching their core and they moved on it before all the other teams with far more assets were ready to make a move.

Only time will tell whether it was the right move, but Mitchell is a Cavalier now and already doing things no Cavalier has done before.

JonFromVA wrote:Only time will tell whether it was the right move, but Mitchell is a Cavalier now and already doing things no Cavalier has done before.

Like losing in the first round to an inferior team.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:Only time will tell whether it was the right move, but Mitchell is a Cavalier now and already doing things no Cavalier has done before.

Like losing in the first round to an inferior team.

What do you project from this season?

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:Only time will tell whether it was the right move, but Mitchell is a Cavalier now and already doing things no Cavalier has done before.

Like losing in the first round to an inferior team.

Nah, we've done that before.

Maybe this will remind you, or you can enjoy it for the first time.

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:Only time will tell whether it was the right move, but Mitchell is a Cavalier now and already doing things no Cavalier has done before.

Like losing in the first round to an inferior team.

Nah, we've done that before.

Maybe this will remind you, or you can enjoy it for the first time.

Watch on YouTube

But who honestly cares? What does that count for in the long run?

This team is beyond cheering for regular season awards/accolades/achievements; they're heading into JB's 5th season as head coach.

At this point it is post season success or start selling off the redundant pieces Allen and Mitchell, I'm looking at you... Then hire a real head coach.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:
Like losing in the first round to an inferior team.

Nah, we've done that before.

Maybe this will remind you, or you can enjoy it for the first time.

Watch on YouTube

But who honestly cares? What does that count for in the long run?

This team is beyond cheering for regular season awards/accolades/achievements; they're heading into JB's 5th season as head coach.

At this point it is post season success or start selling off the redundant pieces Allen and Mitchell, I'm looking at you... Then hire a real head coach.

Ahh, details.

JB has been the head coach of the Cavs for 3 seasons and 11 games.

There are 2 players left from the team he inherited.

The team has improved each season.

Redundancy is a feature, not a flaw.

If you don't think anyone cares about Mitchell scoring 71pts and other regular season achievements on this board, feel free to create a poll.

Fun fact: JBB is the 6th longest tenured head coach in the NBA. Pop, Spo, Kerr, Malone, Jenkins, JBB.

toooskies wrote:Fun fact: JBB is the 6th longest tenured head coach in the NBA. Pop, Spo, Kerr, Malone, Jenkins, JBB.

Just for the Cavs or for his entire coaching career?

Either way, wild.

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Nah, we've done that before.

Maybe this will remind you, or you can enjoy it for the first time.

Watch on YouTube

But who honestly cares? What does that count for in the long run?

This team is beyond cheering for regular season awards/accolades/achievements; they're heading into JB's 5th season as head coach.

At this point it is post season success or start selling off the redundant pieces Allen and Mitchell, I'm looking at you... Then hire a real head coach.

Ahh, details.

JB has been the head coach of the Cavs for 3 seasons and 11 games.

There are 2 players left from the team he inherited.

The team has improved each season.

Redundancy is a feature, not a flaw.

If you don't think anyone cares about Mitchell scoring 71pts and other regular season achievements on this board, feel free to create a poll.

Idc if people on a forum care, I'm speaking big picture here. Mitchell can score 72 points next season and if they lose in the first round again, that one regular season game against a non playoff is irrelevant.

Yes, JB has been the head coach for 4 seasons, not sure why that needs to be repeated.

No, redundancy is a flaw, if a team can't muster more than 1 win vs a sorry Knicks team in the playoffs.

ijspeelman wrote:

toooskies wrote:Fun fact: JBB is the 6th longest tenured head coach in the NBA. Pop, Spo, Kerr, Malone, Jenkins, JBB.

Just for the Cavs or for his entire coaching career?

Either way, wild.

In their current job.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:But who honestly cares? What does that count for in the long run?

This team is beyond cheering for regular season awards/accolades/achievements; they're heading into JB's 5th season as head coach.

At this point it is post season success or start selling off the redundant pieces Allen and Mitchell, I'm looking at you... Then hire a real head coach.

Ahh, details.

JB has been the head coach of the Cavs for 3 seasons and 11 games.

There are 2 players left from the team he inherited.

The team has improved each season.

Redundancy is a feature, not a flaw.

If you don't think anyone cares about Mitchell scoring 71pts and other regular season achievements on this board, feel free to create a poll.

Idc if people on a forum care, I'm speaking big picture here. Mitchell can score 72 points next season and if they lose in the first round again, that one regular season game against a non playoff is irrelevant.

Yes, JB has been the head coach for 4 seasons, not sure why that needs to be repeated.

No, redundancy is a flaw, if a team can't muster more than 1 win vs a sorry Knicks team in the playoffs.

Most people do dispute that the end of 2020 constitutes a "year". It isn't as if the team was using his systems, philosophies, or whatever.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:But who honestly cares? What does that count for in the long run?

This team is beyond cheering for regular season awards/accolades/achievements; they're heading into JB's 5th season as head coach.

At this point it is post season success or start selling off the redundant pieces Allen and Mitchell, I'm looking at you... Then hire a real head coach.

Ahh, details.

JB has been the head coach of the Cavs for 3 seasons and 11 games.

There are 2 players left from the team he inherited.

The team has improved each season.

Redundancy is a feature, not a flaw.

If you don't think anyone cares about Mitchell scoring 71pts and other regular season achievements on this board, feel free to create a poll.

Idc if people on a forum care, I'm speaking big picture here. Mitchell can score 72 points next season and if they lose in the first round again, that one regular season game against a non playoff is irrelevant.

Yes, JB has been the head coach for 4 seasons, not sure why that needs to be repeated.

No, redundancy is a flaw, if a team can't muster more than 1 win vs a sorry Knicks team in the playoffs.

You literally said "Who cares" and now you said "You don't care".

If you're intention isn't to troll this message board, then you should care what the rest of us think and try to accommodate; otherwise you can always bounce your opinions off a wall.

And no, JBB has not been the head coach of the Cavs for 4 seasons. You might say he's spanned 4 seasons as the head coach, but what exactly is the point? 3 seasons and 11 games. That's it.

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Ahh, details.

JB has been the head coach of the Cavs for 3 seasons and 11 games.

There are 2 players left from the team he inherited.

The team has improved each season.

Redundancy is a feature, not a flaw.

If you don't think anyone cares about Mitchell scoring 71pts and other regular season achievements on this board, feel free to create a poll.

Idc if people on a forum care, I'm speaking big picture here. Mitchell can score 72 points next season and if they lose in the first round again, that one regular season game against a non playoff is irrelevant.

Yes, JB has been the head coach for 4 seasons, not sure why that needs to be repeated.

No, redundancy is a flaw, if a team can't muster more than 1 win vs a sorry Knicks team in the playoffs.

Most people do dispute that the end of 2020 constitutes a "year". It isn't as if the team was using his systems, philosophies, or whatever.

It's also important to point out that Covid happened and JBB lost on an entire training camp, and had to deal with a compressed season resulting in less practices, and missed games.

Or maybe it's not important. I mean those of us who watched this team know what they've been through.

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Ahh, details.

JB has been the head coach of the Cavs for 3 seasons and 11 games.

There are 2 players left from the team he inherited.

The team has improved each season.

Redundancy is a feature, not a flaw.

If you don't think anyone cares about Mitchell scoring 71pts and other regular season achievements on this board, feel free to create a poll.

Idc if people on a forum care, I'm speaking big picture here. Mitchell can score 72 points next season and if they lose in the first round again, that one regular season game against a non playoff is irrelevant.

Yes, JB has been the head coach for 4 seasons, not sure why that needs to be repeated.

No, redundancy is a flaw, if a team can't muster more than 1 win vs a sorry Knicks team in the playoffs.

You literally said "Who cares" and now you said "You don't care".

If you're intention isn't to troll this message board, then you should care what the rest of us think and try to accommodate; otherwise you can always bounce your opinions off a wall.

And no, JBB has not been the head coach of the Cavs for 4 seasons. You might say he's spanned 4 seasons as the head coach, but what exactly is the point? 3 seasons and 11 games. That's it.

It's irrelevant who cares about it, is the point. Adam Silver himself can care and if that 71 point regular season game against a non playoff team doesn't turn into post season success then blow up the redundancy and get a new head coach.

To how many seasons JB has been the head coach, you're splitting hairs, which i get it, you always do that but...

As long as counting still works as it always has, he's been the coach for 4 seasons heading into his 5th, look, even the basketball bible says so.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:Idc if people on a forum care, I'm speaking big picture here. Mitchell can score 72 points next season and if they lose in the first round again, that one regular season game against a non playoff is irrelevant.

Yes, JB has been the head coach for 4 seasons, not sure why that needs to be repeated.

No, redundancy is a flaw, if a team can't muster more than 1 win vs a sorry Knicks team in the playoffs.

You literally said "Who cares" and now you said "You don't care".

If you're intention isn't to troll this message board, then you should care what the rest of us think and try to accommodate; otherwise you can always bounce your opinions off a wall.

And no, JBB has not been the head coach of the Cavs for 4 seasons. You might say he's spanned 4 seasons as the head coach, but what exactly is the point? 3 seasons and 11 games. That's it.

It's irrelevant who cares about it, is the point. Adam Silver himself can care and if that 71 point regular season game against a non playoff team doesn't turn into post season success then blow up the redundancy and get a new head coach.

To how many seasons JB has been the head coach, you're splitting hairs, which i get it, you always do that but...

As long as counting still works as it always has, he's been the coach for 4 seasons heading into his 5th, look, even the basketball bible says so.

I feel like your goal here is to disagree with anything and everything that everyone is saying here.

TheLand13 wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
You literally said "Who cares" and now you said "You don't care".

If you're intention isn't to troll this message board, then you should care what the rest of us think and try to accommodate; otherwise you can always bounce your opinions off a wall.

And no, JBB has not been the head coach of the Cavs for 4 seasons. You might say he's spanned 4 seasons as the head coach, but what exactly is the point? 3 seasons and 11 games. That's it.

It's irrelevant who cares about it, is the point. Adam Silver himself can care and if that 71 point regular season game against a non playoff team doesn't turn into post season success then blow up the redundancy and get a new head coach.

To how many seasons JB has been the head coach, you're splitting hairs, which i get it, you always do that but...

As long as counting still works as it always has, he's been the coach for 4 seasons heading into his 5th, look, even the basketball bible says so.

I feel like your goal here is to disagree with anything and everything that everyone is saying here.

He's been very forward with his thoughts that play-off success is all that matters (and the Cavs failed) and that the Mitchell trade was an overpay.

It makes sense that any conversation about the team's future or its small successes will mean very little in the grand scheme of these ideas. Its a valid response, even if I am not in agreement.

I still think there are a ton of unknowns about this team that I am extremely excited for. I am also not one to dwell on a small sample of poor performance, especially with the context of that failure.

ijspeelman wrote:

TheLand13 wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:It's irrelevant who cares about it, is the point. Adam Silver himself can care and if that 71 point regular season game against a non playoff team doesn't turn into post season success then blow up the redundancy and get a new head coach.

To how many seasons JB has been the head coach, you're splitting hairs, which i get it, you always do that but...

As long as counting still works as it always has, he's been the coach for 4 seasons heading into his 5th, look, even the basketball bible says so.

I feel like your goal here is to disagree with anything and everything that everyone is saying here.

He's been very forward with his thoughts that play-off success is all that matters (and the Cavs failed) and that the Mitchell trade was an overpay.

It makes sense that any conversation about the team's future or its small successes will mean very little in the grand scheme of these ideas. Its a valid response, even if I am not in agreement.

I still think there are a ton of unknowns about this team that I am extremely excited for. I am also not one to dwell on a small sample of poor performance, especially with the context of that failure.

I'm going to be direct here rather than PM or make a report because frankly I'm hoping JujitsuFlip will take this constructively and improve his approach.

There's a couple of problems here.

One is that he frequently "loads" his arguments to try to paint his points while dismissing corrections and other opinions, and the other is this board is here to support the day to day fans of the team - not just those who are only able to watch the playoffs. So his behavior is borderline that of a Knicks fan coming over to our forum after the playoffs and telling us how awful we are, what a big mistake we made, and how we need to fix our team.

If a Knick's fan was acting like this on our forum, he'd historically be given a strike and be told to go away. It wouldn't matter whether he was ultimately right or not.

ijspeelman wrote:

TheLand13 wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:It's irrelevant who cares about it, is the point. Adam Silver himself can care and if that 71 point regular season game against a non playoff team doesn't turn into post season success then blow up the redundancy and get a new head coach.

To how many seasons JB has been the head coach, you're splitting hairs, which i get it, you always do that but...

As long as counting still works as it always has, he's been the coach for 4 seasons heading into his 5th, look, even the basketball bible says so.

I feel like your goal here is to disagree with anything and everything that everyone is saying here.

He's been very forward with his thoughts that play-off success is all that matters (and the Cavs failed) and that the Mitchell trade was an overpay.

It makes sense that any conversation about the team's future or its small successes will mean very little in the grand scheme of these ideas. Its a valid response, even if I am not in agreement.

I still think there are a ton of unknowns about this team that I am extremely excited for. I am also not one to dwell on a small sample of poor performance, especially with the context of that failure.

While I don’t disagree that the Mitchell trade was an overpay to an extent and that we’ve made some big mistakes along the way, I feel like his approach is that of extreme negativity and acting as if all hope is lost, even if that’s not necessarily the case (and it most certainly isn’t). I can live with that, but this is just silly. Arguing over something as little as whether JB has been a coach for three seasons and 11 games our four (btw he’s been coach for three seasons and 11 games, stop with this nonsense) is just pushing it.

Edit: sorry, didn’t see the follow up posts about this.