Cavs trade for Mitchell.

[KuruptedCav]

These feel like worse comparisons than your BMW/Ford comp.

Cavs were never even near the treadmill, they were back in the locker room changing outta their 9-5 clothes and warming up.

The guy they just depleted all their future assets for is a professional leader of a treadmill team. His teams exited early year in and year out, hence why the "stars" and coaching staff are all gone now.

Cavs weren't a championship contender prior to the trade, obviously. Neither are they after the trade. 2 small guards hasn't worked to achieve a title since the bad boy Pistons, that was 30+ years ago.

Shoot, add in a team hasn't won with 2 traditional bigs in over a decade since Kobe's Lakers. Where this team is strong, they're really strong. However, where they're weak, it is substantial weakness.

Was Lebron a Treadmill commander prior to joining the Heat?
How about Shaq with the Magic?

Paul George has won what?
James Harden has won what?
Ben Simmons has won what?

The only acceptable scenario you’ve posited is one that doesn’t exist in reality. We do know what happens when you refuse to play the chips you’ve brought.

The 76ers have won what? They finished 4th in the East last year, their young core imploded and they are praying to God that 33 year old James Harden can save it. But at least they have their picks.

Is Milwaukee lamenting the Jrue Holiday trade?
Are the Lakers worried about the assets they shipped for Anthony Davis?

Things don’t always go perfect, but they also don’t always go immediately, horribly and irreversibly wrong either.

If it works, great. If not, it probably looks like the James Harden situation where Brooklyn gave up Jarrett Allen, 3FRPs, and Four Pick Swaps then flipped him a year later for 2FRPs, Ben Simmons and Seth Curry. Effectively a netting trade of Jarrett Allen, 1 FRP and 4 pick swaps for Ben Simmons and Seth Curry. I don’t think that would have been a bad trade either.

This Cavs front office has done well and earned some trust. They drafted Garland a year after going in on Sexton. Previous regimes would have taken Jarrett Culver because he “fit” better. They came out of an abysmal 2020 draft with a useful rotational player. They brought in Jarrett Allen, didn’t bungle the Garland extension, and didn’t screw up the 2021 draft by getting fancy.

Maybe the sky isn’t falling, let it ride for 6 months bro.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So to defend Mitchell regularly losing in the 1st round and never making it outta the 2nd round, you pick 2 guys who made it to the the Finals (2007 Cavs and 1995 Magic)? I do not understand the comparisons you pick lol

Bucks and Lakers won a title after their trade(s) again with these comparisons lol you think the Cavs are gonna win a title with this core?!

I never said the sky was falling, Cavs just gave up way too much, Ainge always gets over on Altman, par for the course at this point.

Grant Hill, Vince Carter, Dominique Wilkins, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, etc. never sniffed the finals. All treadmill players?

And we’ll use Curry who didn’t make the finals til 26; Dirk, Jordan at age 27, all treadmill players at Donovan Mitchell’s age?

Will the Cavs win this year? Probably not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[toooskies]

And again, I want to re-iterate, I don' t have a dog in the race. I just have my fingers crossed someone steps up in to the role rather than having to accept the lesser of numerous evils.

Well, I do kind of hope Dylan Winder breaks-out and finally validates our selection of him, but that's just a wish. His first concern is trying to convince someone he even belongs in the NBA.

And that's the thing, you're really not asking for all that much from a guy surrounded by 4 All-Star caliber players in the starting 5. The Cavs have options on the roster now. Will any of those be a good long-term fit? We'll see.

Yep. You don't even really want an offensive presence there when you're likely to see Garland, Mitchell, and Mobley hitting 70% usage combined. You need a glue guy who's going to do enough on the floor that you're not playing 4-on-5 on offense, and is a plus on defense.

Any of Okoro, Wade, Osman, Stevens, Windler could be that guy. I don't think LeVert can, but he brings a different presence, that of being a third three-level offensive weapon.

[JujitsuFlip]

Was Lebron a Treadmill commander prior to joining the Heat?
How about Shaq with the Magic?

Paul George has won what?
James Harden has won what?
Ben Simmons has won what?

The only acceptable scenario you’ve posited is one that doesn’t exist in reality. We do know what happens when you refuse to play the chips you’ve brought.

The 76ers have won what? They finished 4th in the East last year, their young core imploded and they are praying to God that 33 year old James Harden can save it. But at least they have their picks.

Is Milwaukee lamenting the Jrue Holiday trade?
Are the Lakers worried about the assets they shipped for Anthony Davis?

Things don’t always go perfect, but they also don’t always go immediately, horribly and irreversibly wrong either.

If it works, great. If not, it probably looks like the James Harden situation where Brooklyn gave up Jarrett Allen, 3FRPs, and Four Pick Swaps then flipped him a year later for 2FRPs, Ben Simmons and Seth Curry. Effectively a netting trade of Jarrett Allen, 1 FRP and 4 pick swaps for Ben Simmons and Seth Curry. I don’t think that would have been a bad trade either.

This Cavs front office has done well and earned some trust. They drafted Garland a year after going in on Sexton. Previous regimes would have taken Jarrett Culver because he “fit” better. They came out of an abysmal 2020 draft with a useful rotational player. They brought in Jarrett Allen, didn’t bungle the Garland extension, and didn’t screw up the 2021 draft by getting fancy.

Maybe the sky isn’t falling, let it ride for 6 months bro.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So to defend Mitchell regularly losing in the 1st round and never making it outta the 2nd round, you pick 2 guys who made it to the the Finals (2007 Cavs and 1995 Magic)? I do not understand the comparisons you pick lol

Bucks and Lakers won a title after their trade(s) again with these comparisons lol you think the Cavs are gonna win a title with this core?!

I never said the sky was falling, Cavs just gave up way too much, Ainge always gets over on Altman, par for the course at this point.

Who has been the second best offensive player in Utah while Mitchell was there? Bogdanovic? Conley? He had shooters around him but he was driving that offense himself.

Donovan Mitchell's playoff record thus far: 17-22. Michael Jordan's playoff record through his age 25 season: 14-23. I'm not saying Mitchell is comparable to Jordan. I'm saying it's far too early to claim he's not going to win in the playoffs.

Don't like the Jordan comparison? Go look at Damian Lillard, who's had a very similar career. Made it out of the 2nd round once. Talked about as a bigger star than Mitchell, although Mitchell's further along than Lillard was at age 26. But as comparable as Dame and Mitchell might be (and foreboding for Mitchell), Garland is way better than McCollum and Mobley/Allen are way better defenders than anyone Portland has had inside while Dame has been with the Blazers-- and that's the version of them now, not what they could be in the next few years.

I'm not saying the guy will never win in his entire career, I'm just saying he isn't a proven commodity. The Cavs didn't pay that hefty price for a guy that has won a title or been to the Finals.

[ijspeelman]

So to defend Mitchell regularly losing in the 1st round and never making it outta the 2nd round, you pick 2 guys who made it to the the Finals (2007 Cavs and 1995 Magic)? I do not understand the comparisons you pick lol

Bucks and Lakers won a title after their trade(s) again with these comparisons lol you think the Cavs are gonna win a title with this core?!

I never said the sky was falling, Cavs just gave up way too much, Ainge always gets over on Altman, par for the course at this point.

Who has been the second best offensive player in Utah while Mitchell was there? Bogdanovic? Conley? He had shooters around him but he was driving that offense himself.

Donovan Mitchell's playoff record thus far: 17-22. Michael Jordan's playoff record through his age 25 season: 14-23. I'm not saying Mitchell is comparable to Jordan. I'm saying it's far too early to claim he's not going to win in the playoffs.

Don't like the Jordan comparison? Go look at Damian Lillard, who's had a very similar career. Made it out of the 2nd round once. Talked about as a bigger star than Mitchell, although Mitchell's further along than Lillard was at age 26. But as comparable as Dame and Mitchell might be (and foreboding for Mitchell), Garland is way better than McCollum and Mobley/Allen are way better defenders than anyone Portland has had inside while Dame has been with the Blazers-- and that's the version of them now, not what they could be in the next few years.

I'm not saying the guy will never win in his entire career, I'm just saying he isn't a proven commodity. The Cavs didn't pay that hefty price for a guy that has won a title or been to the Finals.

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

[KuruptedCav]

And again, I want to re-iterate, I don' t have a dog in the race. I just have my fingers crossed someone steps up in to the role rather than having to accept the lesser of numerous evils.

Well, I do kind of hope Dylan Winder breaks-out and finally validates our selection of him, but that's just a wish. His first concern is trying to convince someone he even belongs in the NBA.

And that's the thing, you're really not asking for all that much from a guy surrounded by 4 All-Star caliber players in the starting 5. The Cavs have options on the roster now. Will any of those be a good long-term fit? We'll see.

He’s got the hustle stats backing up that he should be better than he’s shown. Seniors are always weird on development curves.

I’m happy to spend the year figuring out if he, Wade, Osman, Okoro, or LeVert is up for the role, and taking a flyer elsewhere if they aren’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JujitsuFlip]

Who has been the second best offensive player in Utah while Mitchell was there? Bogdanovic? Conley? He had shooters around him but he was driving that offense himself.

Donovan Mitchell's playoff record thus far: 17-22. Michael Jordan's playoff record through his age 25 season: 14-23. I'm not saying Mitchell is comparable to Jordan. I'm saying it's far too early to claim he's not going to win in the playoffs.

Don't like the Jordan comparison? Go look at Damian Lillard, who's had a very similar career. Made it out of the 2nd round once. Talked about as a bigger star than Mitchell, although Mitchell's further along than Lillard was at age 26. But as comparable as Dame and Mitchell might be (and foreboding for Mitchell), Garland is way better than McCollum and Mobley/Allen are way better defenders than anyone Portland has had inside while Dame has been with the Blazers-- and that's the version of them now, not what they could be in the next few years.

I'm not saying the guy will never win in his entire career, I'm just saying he isn't a proven commodity. The Cavs didn't pay that hefty price for a guy that has won a title or been to the Finals.

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

[mcfly1204]

I'm not saying the guy will never win in his entire career, I'm just saying he isn't a proven commodity. The Cavs didn't pay that hefty price for a guy that has won a title or been to the Finals.

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

Cleveland has the youngest, most talented roster in the NBA. Enjoy it, and watch this group continue to improve as they gel. Pieces will come and go, but how many teams in the league would love to be in their position?

[toooskies]

I'm not saying the guy will never win in his entire career, I'm just saying he isn't a proven commodity. The Cavs didn't pay that hefty price for a guy that has won a title or been to the Finals.

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

Or we could have an awesome team that starts competing for championships for a decade. The contending window is opening.

When you have two healthy, talented bigs that you're building the team around, you never know how long that will last.

The last thing you want to do is be in a position where there actually is a rush to get better. That probably means your window already closed and you don't want to admit it. It's how Atlanta backslid the year after making the conference Finals-- waiting on their own talent.

[JonFromVA]

I'm not saying the guy will never win in his entire career, I'm just saying he isn't a proven commodity. The Cavs didn't pay that hefty price for a guy that has won a title or been to the Finals.

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

The thing is we don't know whether there's a rush, but there most certainly is a window of opportunity while Mobley is on his rookie deal, Allen is signed relatively cheaply, Garland and Mitchell are making $30M/yr and the cap is coming due for a big bump.

We were very fortunate to get Mitchell without giving up a core player, because there are plenty of teams who could have offered more picks than we did and may choose to do so on the next star to hit the open market. We also moved Collin which was a crucial part of doing the deal when we did it.

There's also something to be said for going cheap/flexible at the SF spot now that we've invested so much at other spots. As much as we may like Mikal Bridges, could we even afford him?

I suppose LeVert and Love will be our first test of how much we think we can pay our 5th/6th best player.

For some perspective here, consider the Warriors with their bloated payroll only spend $9M and $5M on their 5th and 6th highest paid player. We have some leeway because we will not be as top heavy for a while, but we also don't have their revenue.

The Celtics who only have a "big 2" spent $13M and $8m on their 5th and 6th best players.

So, while we'll no doubt be keeping an eye on Cam Johnson and whether the Suns cheap out so they don't have to pay their 5th best player too much ... we may not be able to justify paying him $20M+ either.

Would be interesting to have a confidential chat with whoever is doing the Cavs future cap planning.

[JonFromVA]

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

Cleveland has the youngest, most talented roster in the NBA. Enjoy it, and watch this group continue to improve as they gel. Pieces will come and go, but how many teams in the league would love to be in their position?

It'll be interesting to see what Memphis does because they've so far declined to make any sort of big deal to add to their core. They're the team that's waiting for just the right situation, that may never happen and let Kyle Anderson just walk over a meager 2/$18M.

Also traded away D'Anthony Melton.

[JujitsuFlip]

Was Lebron a Treadmill commander prior to joining the Heat?
How about Shaq with the Magic?

Paul George has won what?
James Harden has won what?
Ben Simmons has won what?

The only acceptable scenario you’ve posited is one that doesn’t exist in reality. We do know what happens when you refuse to play the chips you’ve brought.

The 76ers have won what? They finished 4th in the East last year, their young core imploded and they are praying to God that 33 year old James Harden can save it. But at least they have their picks.

Is Milwaukee lamenting the Jrue Holiday trade?
Are the Lakers worried about the assets they shipped for Anthony Davis?

Things don’t always go perfect, but they also don’t always go immediately, horribly and irreversibly wrong either.

If it works, great. If not, it probably looks like the James Harden situation where Brooklyn gave up Jarrett Allen, 3FRPs, and Four Pick Swaps then flipped him a year later for 2FRPs, Ben Simmons and Seth Curry. Effectively a netting trade of Jarrett Allen, 1 FRP and 4 pick swaps for Ben Simmons and Seth Curry. I don’t think that would have been a bad trade either.

This Cavs front office has done well and earned some trust. They drafted Garland a year after going in on Sexton. Previous regimes would have taken Jarrett Culver because he “fit” better. They came out of an abysmal 2020 draft with a useful rotational player. They brought in Jarrett Allen, didn’t bungle the Garland extension, and didn’t screw up the 2021 draft by getting fancy.

Maybe the sky isn’t falling, let it ride for 6 months bro.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So to defend Mitchell regularly losing in the 1st round and never making it outta the 2nd round, you pick 2 guys who made it to the the Finals (2007 Cavs and 1995 Magic)? I do not understand the comparisons you pick lol

Bucks and Lakers won a title after their trade(s) again with these comparisons lol you think the Cavs are gonna win a title with this core?!

I never said the sky was falling, Cavs just gave up way too much, Ainge always gets over on Altman, par for the course at this point.

I thought everyone agreed that Altman won the Irving trade?

Boston is pretty lucky they survived that trade, clearly it took it's toll on both Ainge and Stevens, and as it turned out their best answer was to stop trying to break up Tatum, Brown, and Smart like everyone was telling them they had to do. To me, it's just another example of why you don't give up on young talented players even when they seem to have unworkable limitations and redundancies.

Did he? IT was atrocious for the Cavs, Crowder didn't fit, Z never panned out, 2018 BKN pick became Sexton, the 2020 Heat pick was traded.

============

IT + Frye and a 1st rounder traded for Nance and Clarkson.

Crowder + Rose, Shump, and the 2020 Heat pick traded for Hood and Hill.

Zizic went back overseas.

===================

Clarkson was traded for Exum and two 2nd rounders.

Nance was traded for Markkanen (though Cavs probably shoulda just taken the Blazers 1st rounder).

Hood traded for Stauskas, Baldwin, and two 2nd rounders.

Hill + Decker traded for Henson, Delly, and a Bucks first round pick.

======================

Stauskas and Baldwin + Burks traded for Knight, Chriss, and a 2019 1st rounder.

===================

Knight and Henson + a 2nd rounder traded for Drummond.

Exum and the Bucks 1st rounder traded for Allen and Prince.

Chriss left for nothing.

Delly went overseas.

====================

Houston's first round pick used on Windler

A bunch of those 2nd rounders traded for the right to draft KPJ

Drummond bought out

=====================

KPJ traded to the Rockets for nothing.

Prince + cash and a 2nd rounder traded for Rubio.

===============

Rubio + a first rounder traded for LeVert

Sexton and Markkanen + 3 first rounders, two 1st round swaps and the Cavs 2022 first rounder (Agbaji) traded for Mitchell.

================

Pretty long convoluted list, the 2 trades are linked pretty heavily too. In total to get rid of Irving and acquire Mitchell, Koby gave up like 10 first rounders, oof. Still TBD what happens with Windler and LeVert and to a lesser extent Allen.

[JujitsuFlip]

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

Or we could have an awesome team that starts competing for championships for a decade. The contending window is opening.

When you have two healthy, talented bigs that you're building the team around, you never know how long that will last.

The last thing you want to do is be in a position where there actually is a rush to get better. That probably means your window already closed and you don't want to admit it. It's how Atlanta backslid the year after making the conference Finals-- waiting on their own talent.

Championships? Idk about that but at minimum should be playoff appearances.

[JujitsuFlip]

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

Cleveland has the youngest, most talented roster in the NBA. Enjoy it, and watch this group continue to improve as they gel. Pieces will come and go, but how many teams in the league would love to be in their position?

I just got rid of cable, so I'll have to live vicariously through you all lol

[JujitsuFlip]

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

The thing is we don't know whether there's a rush, but there most certainly is a window of opportunity while Mobley is on his rookie deal, Allen is signed relatively cheaply, Garland and Mitchell are making $30M/yr and the cap is coming due for a big bump.

We were very fortunate to get Mitchell without giving up a core player, because there are plenty of teams who could have offered more picks than we did and may choose to do so on the next star to hit the open market. We also moved Collin which was a crucial part of doing the deal when we did it.

There's also something to be said for going cheap/flexible at the SF spot now that we've invested so much at other spots. As much as we may like Mikal Bridges, could we even afford him?

I suppose LeVert and Love will be our first test of how much we think we can pay our 5th/6th best player.

For some perspective here, consider the Warriors with their bloated payroll only spend $9M and $5M on their 5th and 6th highest paid player. We have some leeway because we will not be as top heavy for a while, but we also don't have their revenue.

The Celtics who only have a "big 2" spent $13M and $8m on their 5th and 6th best players.

So, while we'll no doubt be keeping an eye on Cam Johnson and whether the Suns cheap out so they don't have to pay their 5th best player too much ... we may not be able to justify paying him $20M+ either.

Would be interesting to have a confidential chat with whoever is doing the Cavs future cap planning.

I think just focusing on getting a SF is where the focus should be.

[ijspeelman]

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

Cleveland has the youngest, most talented roster in the NBA. Enjoy it, and watch this group continue to improve as they gel. Pieces will come and go, but how many teams in the league would love to be in their position?

I just got rid of cable, so I'll have to live vicariously through you all lol

Sportsurge.net

[KuruptedCav]

To be fair, those players are not available (for a reason) and especially one that is 26 or younger.

You aren't snagging a Tatum after a finals appearance because that team is going to run it back.

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

The thing is we don't know whether there's a rush, but there most certainly is a window of opportunity while Mobley is on his rookie deal, Allen is signed relatively cheaply, Garland and Mitchell are making $30M/yr and the cap is coming due for a big bump.

We were very fortunate to get Mitchell without giving up a core player, because there are plenty of teams who could have offered more picks than we did and may choose to do so on the next star to hit the open market. We also moved Collin which was a crucial part of doing the deal when we did it.

There's also something to be said for going cheap/flexible at the SF spot now that we've invested so much at other spots. As much as we may like Mikal Bridges, could we even afford him?

I suppose LeVert and Love will be our first test of how much we think we can pay our 5th/6th best player.

For some perspective here, consider the Warriors with their bloated payroll only spend $9M and $5M on their 5th and 6th highest paid player. We have some leeway because we will not be as top heavy for a while, but we also don't have their revenue.

The Celtics who only have a "big 2" spent $13M and $8m on their 5th and 6th best players.

So, while we'll no doubt be keeping an eye on Cam Johnson and whether the Suns cheap out so they don't have to pay their 5th best player too much ... we may not be able to justify paying him $20M+ either.

Would be interesting to have a confidential chat with whoever is doing the Cavs future cap planning.

Uncle Dan will spend. Now that he’s pared other interests; basketball is the family business. He’s got a net worth of around $50 billion and the value of winning sans Lebron is there. He could spend $500 million per year and it wouldn’t even dent him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mcfly1204]

Cleveland has the youngest, most talented roster in the NBA. Enjoy it, and watch this group continue to improve as they gel. Pieces will come and go, but how many teams in the league would love to be in their position?

I just got rid of cable, so I'll have to live vicariously through you all lol

Sportsurge.net

I was thinking gtfo.now

[JonFromVA]

So to defend Mitchell regularly losing in the 1st round and never making it outta the 2nd round, you pick 2 guys who made it to the the Finals (2007 Cavs and 1995 Magic)? I do not understand the comparisons you pick lol

Bucks and Lakers won a title after their trade(s) again with these comparisons lol you think the Cavs are gonna win a title with this core?!

I never said the sky was falling, Cavs just gave up way too much, Ainge always gets over on Altman, par for the course at this point.

I thought everyone agreed that Altman won the Irving trade?

Boston is pretty lucky they survived that trade, clearly it took it's toll on both Ainge and Stevens, and as it turned out their best answer was to stop trying to break up Tatum, Brown, and Smart like everyone was telling them they had to do. To me, it's just another example of why you don't give up on young talented players even when they seem to have unworkable limitations and redundancies.

Did he? IT was atrocious for the Cavs, Crowder didn't fit, Z never panned out, 2018 BKN pick became Sexton, the 2020 Heat pick was traded.

============

IT + Frye and a 1st rounder traded for Nance and Clarkson.

Crowder + Rose, Shump, and the 2020 Heat pick traded for Hood and Hill.

Zizic went back overseas.

===================

Clarkson was traded for Exum and two 2nd rounders.

Nance was traded for Markkanen (though Cavs probably shoulda just taken the Blazers 1st rounder).

Hood traded for Stauskas, Baldwin, and two 2nd rounders.

Hill + Decker traded for Henson, Delly, and a Bucks first round pick.

======================

Stauskas and Baldwin + Burks traded for Knight, Chriss, and a 2019 1st rounder.

===================

Knight and Henson + a 2nd rounder traded for Drummond.

Exum and the Bucks 1st rounder traded for Allen and Prince.

Chriss left for nothing.

Delly went overseas.

====================

Houston's first round pick used on Windler

A bunch of those 2nd rounders traded for the right to draft KPJ

Drummond bought out

=====================

KPJ traded to the Rockets for nothing.

Prince + cash and a 2nd rounder traded for Rubio.

===============

Rubio + a first rounder traded for LeVert

Sexton and Markkanen + 3 first rounders, two 1st round swaps and the Cavs 2022 first rounder (Agbaji) traded for Mitchell.

================

Pretty long convoluted list, the 2 trades are linked pretty heavily too. In total to get rid of Irving and acquire Mitchell, Koby gave up like 10 first rounders, oof. Still TBD what happens with Windler and LeVert and to a lesser extent Allen.

And any of that is presumably better than having a very promising team torn apart by Irving and then watching him walk for nothing.

Altman can't stop talking about Collin as a cultural piece of the rebuild.

[JonFromVA]

Probably so but there was no reason the Cavs had to pull the trigger right now, their core is 21, 22, and 24... There's no rush, they're all on long term deals and young.

Or, the 2nd piece of it is if they felt inclined to pull the trigger now, don't give up as many assets, so the team has assets to round it out and complete the roster.

The thing is we don't know whether there's a rush, but there most certainly is a window of opportunity while Mobley is on his rookie deal, Allen is signed relatively cheaply, Garland and Mitchell are making $30M/yr and the cap is coming due for a big bump.

We were very fortunate to get Mitchell without giving up a core player, because there are plenty of teams who could have offered more picks than we did and may choose to do so on the next star to hit the open market. We also moved Collin which was a crucial part of doing the deal when we did it.

There's also something to be said for going cheap/flexible at the SF spot now that we've invested so much at other spots. As much as we may like Mikal Bridges, could we even afford him?

I suppose LeVert and Love will be our first test of how much we think we can pay our 5th/6th best player.

For some perspective here, consider the Warriors with their bloated payroll only spend $9M and $5M on their 5th and 6th highest paid player. We have some leeway because we will not be as top heavy for a while, but we also don't have their revenue.

The Celtics who only have a "big 2" spent $13M and $8m on their 5th and 6th best players.

So, while we'll no doubt be keeping an eye on Cam Johnson and whether the Suns cheap out so they don't have to pay their 5th best player too much ... we may not be able to justify paying him $20M+ either.

Would be interesting to have a confidential chat with whoever is doing the Cavs future cap planning.

Uncle Dan will spend. Now that he’s pared other interests; basketball is the family business. He’s got a net worth of around $50 billion and the value of winning sans Lebron is there. He could spend $500 million per year and it wouldn’t even dent him.

He's apparently back down to around $18B, and don't assume he can just snap his fingers and raise $500M ***CASH*** to pay a ridiculous luxury tax bill. (*)

The Cavs will have restraints and they will pinch pennies around the corners like they did when they decided to not extend Delly to free up a little cap space, and then let him walk in free-agency. They had a choice of Shump or Delly and went with Shump.

One of our "corners" just so happens to be the SF spot since we've heavily invested in the 4 other positions. but one of the reasons I mentioned talking to the Cavs cap guru is it's possible there's a window where we can spend big bucks at the SF position after Love's contract ends, Mobley is still on his rookie deal, and before the repeater tax kicks in.

Also, post-stroke it's fair to say some of Gilbert's priorities in life have changed and as his son Grant takes over the team he will have his choice how to run it - or even if he wants to. Dan was very clever about finding ways to leverage his ownership of the Cavs ... who knows whether his children will be able to or want to do the same?

(* edit) The NBA does offer teams a rather humongous line of credit, so, the immediate impact of even a $500M tax bill could potentially be absorbed in to this if the team hasn't already spent it.

[toooskies]

The thing is we don't know whether there's a rush, but there most certainly is a window of opportunity while Mobley is on his rookie deal, Allen is signed relatively cheaply, Garland and Mitchell are making $30M/yr and the cap is coming due for a big bump.

We were very fortunate to get Mitchell without giving up a core player, because there are plenty of teams who could have offered more picks than we did and may choose to do so on the next star to hit the open market. We also moved Collin which was a crucial part of doing the deal when we did it.

There's also something to be said for going cheap/flexible at the SF spot now that we've invested so much at other spots. As much as we may like Mikal Bridges, could we even afford him?

I suppose LeVert and Love will be our first test of how much we think we can pay our 5th/6th best player.

For some perspective here, consider the Warriors with their bloated payroll only spend $9M and $5M on their 5th and 6th highest paid player. We have some leeway because we will not be as top heavy for a while, but we also don't have their revenue.

The Celtics who only have a "big 2" spent $13M and $8m on their 5th and 6th best players.

So, while we'll no doubt be keeping an eye on Cam Johnson and whether the Suns cheap out so they don't have to pay their 5th best player too much ... we may not be able to justify paying him $20M+ either.

Would be interesting to have a confidential chat with whoever is doing the Cavs future cap planning.

Uncle Dan will spend. Now that he’s pared other interests; basketball is the family business. He’s got a net worth of around $50 billion and the value of winning sans Lebron is there. He could spend $500 million per year and it wouldn’t even dent him.

He's apparently back down to around $18B, and don't assume he can just snap his fingers and raise $500M ***CASH*** to pay a ridiculous luxury tax bill. (*)

The Cavs will have restraints and they will pinch pennies around the corners like they did when they decided to not extend Delly to free up a little cap space, and then let him walk in free-agency. They had a choice of Shump or Delly and went with Shump.

One of our "corners" just so happens to be the SF spot since we've heavily invested in the 4 other positions. but one of the reasons I mentioned talking to the Cavs cap guru is it's possible there's a window where we can spend big bucks at the SF position after Love's contract ends, Mobley is still on his rookie deal, and before the repeater tax kicks in.

Also, post-stroke it's fair to say some of Gilbert's priorities in life have changed and as his son Grant takes over the team he will have his choice how to run it - or even if he wants to. Dan was very clever about finding ways to leverage his ownership of the Cavs ... who knows whether his children will be able to or want to do the same?

(* edit) The NBA does offer teams a rather humongous line of credit, so, the immediate impact of even a $500M tax bill could potentially be absorbed in to this if the team hasn't already spent it.

I don't expect us to spend wastefully. But I also don't expect us to free up enough cap space to sign a high-end free agent to play the 3. That's just not going to work financially long-term, and that guy is going to want more touches than a Garland/Mitchell backcourt is going to allow.

I'm looking at Harrison Barnes, Kyle Kuzma, that range of player for 2023. Maybe one of those guys signs for the MLE on a contender? Or maybe in the meantime one of our guys emerges this year and we don't have to sign anybody new.