Isaac Okoro

[JujitsuFlip]

The same place you poo poo'd before. bball index.

Yeah, because like I said before, personally, I don't want my stats including luck and estimations lol

But to your point about dunksandthrees, no it's not free and the subscription i think has actually went up since you last posted it... Taylor Snarr probably knows numbers, otherwise the Jazz never woulda hired him, regardless how short term it was. But the guy has an BA in psychology so sorry if I'm unimpressed by his findings, I don't consider them reputable and I'm unsure if the guy knows basketball.

Maybe we'll get some more free web sites?

Don't need a PHD in math or programming when you can just ask ChatGPT how to go about crunching the numbers and generating a web page.

There are a lot of already good free sites.

Nba.com
Espn.com
Basketball-reference.com
CBSsports.com
82games.com
Statmuse.com
Nbastuffer.com
Projects.fivethirtyeight.com
nbcsportsedge.com

[jasonxxx102]

We're not still talking about Okoro's defense, are we?

The discussion is valid. Its not a question if he's good at defense, but instead if he is an elite level guard. Its a high bar and its hard to prove.

I did scouting on two games since my last comment and watched all his defensive possessions for 1/10/2023 and 1/12/2023 against UTA and POR respectively (I will do some more scouting in the games coming up and may go back if I feel like making a big post).

Basically everything I said still stands imo. I personally wouldn't put him at the level of the OG's, Mikal Bridges', and Jrue Holiday's of the world for one-on-one defense, but he definitely is no slouch. In the POR game, he had some gorgeous one-on-one possessions against Dame and Jerami Grant specifically.

PNR defense is still hard to gauge because no matter how good you are, you will still get stuck on good screens (or good moving screens). I've had a big plan to scout out what makes good PNR defense and have done some research, but have been too busy since the summer to go really far on it. From what I've seen from some of the premier PNR defenders (Jrue, Smart, Caruso), Okoro gets bounced around more than them on screens though he is really good at recovering when he has to.

I mentioned off-ball issues and I think I may have just picked a bad UTA game to watch him in so I don't want to comment on the failing there. He had two to three possessions where there was a defensive breakdown that starts with him, but they all devolved into a mess of others also failing in their duties so IDK want to harp on him. In general, he's really good at zoning up on the weakside and helping when he is the weak-side defender. His miscommunication normally comes on switches that weren't communicated (at least in these two games I scouted).

I also agree he’s not to the level of those 3 guys but they’re also DPOY caliber players. If that’s the bar for elite then I doubt he ever gets there.

His role isn’t quite the same as a guy like OG or Mikal as they aren’t really POA defenders

Do we think Caruso is an elite defender? He’s regarded as one around the league. I don’t think Okoro is quite that good as we talk today but he’s not far off.

I think the argument around elite is a bit semantic. I’d say he’s at minimum a top 10 POA defender. I have him just outside of the top 5

In no particular order
Jrue
Smart
Caruso
Jaden McDaniels
Dillon Brooks

[JonFromVA]

We're not still talking about Okoro's defense, are we?

The discussion is valid. Its not a question if he's good at defense, but instead if he is an elite level guard. Its a high bar and its hard to prove.

I did scouting on two games since my last comment and watched all his defensive possessions for 1/10/2023 and 1/12/2023 against UTA and POR respectively (I will do some more scouting in the games coming up and may go back if I feel like making a big post).

Basically everything I said still stands imo. I personally wouldn't put him at the level of the OG's, Mikal Bridges', and Jrue Holiday's of the world for one-on-one defense, but he definitely is no slouch. In the POR game, he had some gorgeous one-on-one possessions against Dame and Jerami Grant specifically.

PNR defense is still hard to gauge because no matter how good you are, you will still get stuck on good screens (or good moving screens). I've had a big plan to scout out what makes good PNR defense and have done some research, but have been too busy since the summer to go really far on it. From what I've seen from some of the premier PNR defenders (Jrue, Smart, Caruso), Okoro gets bounced around more than them on screens though he is really good at recovering when he has to.

I mentioned off-ball issues and I think I may have just picked a bad UTA game to watch him in so I don't want to comment on the failing there. He had two to three possessions where there was a defensive breakdown that starts with him, but they all devolved into a mess of others also failing in their duties so IDK want to harp on him. In general, he's really good at zoning up on the weakside and helping when he is the weak-side defender. His miscommunication normally comes on switches that weren't communicated (at least in these two games I scouted).

I also agree he’s not to the level of those 3 guys but they’re also DPOY caliber players. If that’s the bar for elite then I doubt he ever gets there.

His role isn’t quite the same as a guy like OG or Mikal as they aren’t really POA defenders

Do we think Caruso is an elite defender? He’s regarded as one around the league. I don’t think Okoro is quite that good as we talk today but he’s not far off.

I think the argument around elite is a bit semantic. I’d say he’s at minimum a top 10 POA defender. I have him just outside of the top 5

In no particular order
Jrue
Smart
Caruso
Jaden McDaniels
Dillon Brooks

Whatever standard we apply we need to consider who else meets it, because even if Isaac was 95th percentile in pretty much every defensive category ... what does that really mean? Top 22 out of 450 nba players doesn't sound quite as special but that's top 95%.

[jasonxxx102]

The discussion is valid. Its not a question if he's good at defense, but instead if he is an elite level guard. Its a high bar and its hard to prove.

I did scouting on two games since my last comment and watched all his defensive possessions for 1/10/2023 and 1/12/2023 against UTA and POR respectively (I will do some more scouting in the games coming up and may go back if I feel like making a big post).

Basically everything I said still stands imo. I personally wouldn't put him at the level of the OG's, Mikal Bridges', and Jrue Holiday's of the world for one-on-one defense, but he definitely is no slouch. In the POR game, he had some gorgeous one-on-one possessions against Dame and Jerami Grant specifically.

PNR defense is still hard to gauge because no matter how good you are, you will still get stuck on good screens (or good moving screens). I've had a big plan to scout out what makes good PNR defense and have done some research, but have been too busy since the summer to go really far on it. From what I've seen from some of the premier PNR defenders (Jrue, Smart, Caruso), Okoro gets bounced around more than them on screens though he is really good at recovering when he has to.

I mentioned off-ball issues and I think I may have just picked a bad UTA game to watch him in so I don't want to comment on the failing there. He had two to three possessions where there was a defensive breakdown that starts with him, but they all devolved into a mess of others also failing in their duties so IDK want to harp on him. In general, he's really good at zoning up on the weakside and helping when he is the weak-side defender. His miscommunication normally comes on switches that weren't communicated (at least in these two games I scouted).

I also agree he’s not to the level of those 3 guys but they’re also DPOY caliber players. If that’s the bar for elite then I doubt he ever gets there.

His role isn’t quite the same as a guy like OG or Mikal as they aren’t really POA defenders

Do we think Caruso is an elite defender? He’s regarded as one around the league. I don’t think Okoro is quite that good as we talk today but he’s not far off.

I think the argument around elite is a bit semantic. I’d say he’s at minimum a top 10 POA defender. I have him just outside of the top 5

In no particular order
Jrue
Smart
Caruso
Jaden McDaniels
Dillon Brooks

Whatever standard we apply we need to consider who else meets it, because even if Isaac was 95th percentile in pretty much every defensive category ... what does that really mean? Top 22 out of 450 nba players doesn't sound quite as special but that's top 95%.

I think it makes sense to compare him against other POA defenders only.

That's why I'm not even considering a guy like Mikal. OG is interesting cause he can be a POA defender but he's not always and the Raptors are weird anyways because their entire team is made up of switchable forwards.

[ijspeelman]

I also agree he’s not to the level of those 3 guys but they’re also DPOY caliber players. If that’s the bar for elite then I doubt he ever gets there.

His role isn’t quite the same as a guy like OG or Mikal as they aren’t really POA defenders

Do we think Caruso is an elite defender? He’s regarded as one around the league. I don’t think Okoro is quite that good as we talk today but he’s not far off.

I think the argument around elite is a bit semantic. I’d say he’s at minimum a top 10 POA defender. I have him just outside of the top 5

In no particular order
Jrue
Smart
Caruso
Jaden McDaniels
Dillon Brooks

Whatever standard we apply we need to consider who else meets it, because even if Isaac was 95th percentile in pretty much every defensive category ... what does that really mean? Top 22 out of 450 nba players doesn't sound quite as special but that's top 95%.

I think it makes sense to compare him against other POA defenders only.

That's why I'm not even considering a guy like Mikal. OG is interesting cause he can be a POA defender but he's not always and the Raptors are weird anyways because their entire team is made up of switchable forwards.

Mikal is one of the best POA defenders in the league. Its a very fair comparison imo.

[jasonxxx102]

Whatever standard we apply we need to consider who else meets it, because even if Isaac was 95th percentile in pretty much every defensive category ... what does that really mean? Top 22 out of 450 nba players doesn't sound quite as special but that's top 95%.

I think it makes sense to compare him against other POA defenders only.

That's why I'm not even considering a guy like Mikal. OG is interesting cause he can be a POA defender but he's not always and the Raptors are weird anyways because their entire team is made up of switchable forwards.

Mikal is one of the best POA defenders in the league. Its a very fair comparison imo.

Mikal spends very little time defending primary ball handlers and shot creators (7% and 5%) respectively.

Not sure id consider that a POA defender.

Spends most of his time defending wings

[JonFromVA]

I think it makes sense to compare him against other POA defenders only.

That's why I'm not even considering a guy like Mikal. OG is interesting cause he can be a POA defender but he's not always and the Raptors are weird anyways because their entire team is made up of switchable forwards.

Mikal is one of the best POA defenders in the league. Its a very fair comparison imo.

Mikal spends very little time defending primary ball handlers and shot creators (7% and 5%) respectively.

Not sure id consider that a POA defender.

Spends most of his time defending wings

But if he played for the Cavs ... we'd likely ask him to take the toughest wing assignment like we do with Isaac.

[JujitsuFlip]

I think it makes sense to compare him against other POA defenders only.

That's why I'm not even considering a guy like Mikal. OG is interesting cause he can be a POA defender but he's not always and the Raptors are weird anyways because their entire team is made up of switchable forwards.

Mikal spends very little time defending primary ball handlers and shot creators (7% and 5%) respectively.

Not sure id consider that a POA defender.

Spends most of his time defending wings

Who knows where these 5% and 7% numbers even came from but this kind of seems like moving the goalposts. You say Okoro is an elite perimeter defender, then exclude 2 of the players who are renowned for this skill.

Since you're making a distinction between POA and perimeter defenders, the claim is now Okoro is elite at both, or you're backing off one claim in favor of the other?

[jasonxxx102]

I think it makes sense to compare him against other POA defenders only.

That's why I'm not even considering a guy like Mikal. OG is interesting cause he can be a POA defender but he's not always and the Raptors are weird anyways because their entire team is made up of switchable forwards.

Mikal spends very little time defending primary ball handlers and shot creators (7% and 5%) respectively.

Not sure id consider that a POA defender.

Spends most of his time defending wings

Who knows where these 5% and 7% numbers even came from but this kind of seems like moving the goalposts. You say Okoro is an elite perimeter defender, then exclude 2 of the players who are renowned for this skill.

Since you're making a distinction between POA and perimeter defenders, the claim is now Okoro is elite at both, or you're backing off one claim in favor of the other?

You’re trying way too hard to argue something you don’t understand.

[JujitsuFlip]

I think it makes sense to compare him against other POA defenders only.

That's why I'm not even considering a guy like Mikal. OG is interesting cause he can be a POA defender but he's not always and the Raptors are weird anyways because their entire team is made up of switchable forwards.

Mikal spends very little time defending primary ball handlers and shot creators (7% and 5%) respectively.

Not sure id consider that a POA defender.

Spends most of his time defending wings

Who knows where these 5% and 7% numbers even came from but this kind of seems like moving the goalposts. You say Okoro is an elite perimeter defender, then exclude 2 of the players who are renowned for this skill.

Since you're making a distinction between POA and perimeter defenders, the claim is now Okoro is elite at both, or you're backing off one claim in favor of the other?

You’re trying way too hard to argue something you don’t understand.