2012 Season Thread

kellmellus50 · Post #121 » by **kellmellus50** » Tue Oct 2, 2012 3:42 am

Pour the champagne !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ElectricMayhem · Post #122 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:26 am

This team struggled a lot at times, so they don't really seem worthy of a playoff spot, but it makes up for the one stolen from us a few years ago with our end of the season collapse. Now that we're in, the regular season doesn't matter. We're a hell of a team to face with Verlander showing up at least twice per series. Scherzer and Fister are no pushovers, either. I kind of feel like we were built more for the playoffs than the regular season, but still, I've thought since spring training that the Rangers are the best team.

Lionlifer · Post #123 » by **Lionlifer** » Tue Oct 2, 2012 4:14 pm

Back to Back AL Central Champs. Let's GO!

TSE · Post #124 » by **TSE** » Wed Oct 3, 2012 6:44 pm

The Devil Rays and Angels are both eliminated now. RIP to those teams that both won more games and in a tougher division than the Tigers. They should at least get to play a game against each other for a cash consolation prize. Tough luck being categorized with the wrong assortment of teams but that's baseball for you!

joseph mamah · Post #125 » by **joseph mamah** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 2:46 am

Thank you Oakland, I was not looking forward to playing Texas in the first round. hopefully Baltimore can knock them out in the wildcard.

Lionlifer · Post #126 » by **Lionlifer** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 12:58 pm

The Triple Crown is just the cherry on top at this point. Great to see Miggy get recognized for what he is, the best hitter in the game period.

TSE · Post #127 » by **TSE** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 5:51 pm

Lionlifer wrote:The Triple Crown is just the cherry on top at this point. Great to see Miggy get recognized

I disagree with those 2 comments, Cabrerea has been overpaid massive amounts of millions that he never deserved, so to get additional honors and respect from the fans on top of the excessive payments that he believes he has "earned" doesn't give me any warm and fuzzy feelings.

When he accomplishes enough on the field to overtake all of the money he has been paid, then and only then could he possibly get additional credit and appreciation from me. For now he's a relative under-producer and the team is still a joke for the future in conjunction with not being impressive in the present after selling away pieces of that future for this substandard team performance.

You can't have a cherry on top if you don't have an ice cream dessert to start with, and I feel like we only got appetizers here in Detroit and I'm still waiting to finish the meal, that's how far we are from getting to a "cherry on the top" enjoyment status imo.

Also here's an interesting article on a theoretical alternative Triple Crown from an experienced baseball statistician that creates lots of unique ways of looking at the value of a given player and generating more statistically relevant perspective.

http://www.detroittigertales.com/2012/0 ... riple.html

Post #128 » by **ajaX82** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 9:36 pm

Lionlifer wrote:The Triple Crown is just the cherry on top at this point. Great to see Miggy get recognized for what he is, the best hitter in the game period.

Absolutely agree. It really is an amazing accomplishment and solidifies him as the best hitter there is.

Manocad · Post #129 » by **Manocad** » Sat Oct 6, 2012 1:48 pm

TSE wrote:The Devil Rays and Angels are both eliminated now. RIP to those teams that both won more games and in a tougher division than the Tigers. They should at least get to play a game against each other for a cash consolation prize. Tough luck being categorized with the wrong assortment of teams but that's baseball for you!

Awww...should we get you a Kleenex?

Manocad · Post #130 » by **Manocad** » Sat Oct 6, 2012 1:49 pm

TSE wrote:
Lionlifer wrote:The Triple Crown is just the cherry on top at this point. Great to see Miggy get recognized

I disagree with those 2 comments, Cabrerea has been overpaid massive amounts of millions that he never deserved, so to get additional honors and respect from the fans on top of the excessive payments that he believes he has "earned" doesn't give me any warm and fuzzy feelings.

When he accomplishes enough on the field to overtake all of the money he has been paid, then and only then could he possibly get additional credit and appreciation from me. For now he's a relative under-producer and the team is still a joke for the future in conjunction with not being impressive in the present after selling away pieces of that future for this substandard team performance.

You can't have a cherry on top if you don't have an ice cream dessert to start with, and I feel like we only got appetizers here in Detroit and I'm still waiting to finish the meal, that's how far we are from getting to a "cherry on the top" enjoyment status imo.

Also here's an interesting article on a theoretical alternative Triple Crown from an experienced baseball statistician that creates lots of unique ways of looking at the value of a given player and generating more statistically relevant perspective.

http://www.detroittigertales.com/2012/0 ... riple.html

blah blah blah blah Tigers suck blah blah blah blah

Boooooring

TSE · Post #131 » by **TSE** » Sat Oct 6, 2012 7:25 pm

Manocad wrote:
TSE wrote:The Devil Rays and Angels are both eliminated now. RIP to those teams that both won more games and in a tougher division than the Tigers. They should at least get to play a game against each other for a cash consolation prize. Tough luck being categorized with the wrong assortment of teams but that's baseball for you!

Awww...should we get you a Kleenex?

No, I'm not a fan of the Devil Rays or Angels so I'm already over it! I just felt they earned some positive comment of recognition for having won enough games to deserve a shot at the postseason. It's tough when you outplay somebody and win where they lose yet don't have the right to continue. Plus, one of those teams also didn't have to use nearly as much payroll (TB had about half of our team payroll) which gives more respect to the quality of their game and tactics behind their win totals. Heck the difference in payroll would be almost like saying you could give Cabrera and Fielder and Verlander to Tampa Bay just to make it fair. You'd think TB would have won more with those 3 extra guys or equivalents.

Lionlifer · Post #132 » by **Lionlifer** » Mon Oct 8, 2012 2:15 pm

ajaX82 wrote:
Lionlifer wrote:The Triple Crown is just the cherry on top at this point. Great to see Miggy get recognized for what he is, the best hitter in the game period.

Absolutely agree. It really is an amazing accomplishment and solidifies him as the best hitter there is.

Hopefully the MVP voters think the same way. Any other year Miggy would be a lock for MVP, but what Trout did was impressive as hell for a rookie. I still think Miggy will get it, but it'll be very close, and divide the new school (WAR, OPS+) against the old school (BA, RBI).

I do think the Angels missing the playoffs hurt his chances, which is essentially what happend to Miggy a few years ago, and AJAX for rookie of the year if I recall. Plus Trout seems to fade a bit, where as Miggy got better when it mattered, and that HAS to count for something.

TSE · Post #133 » by **TSE** » Mon Oct 8, 2012 6:30 pm

Wow that was one ugly game of mistakes yesterday by both teams, time to move on and forget ever witnessing that slopfest...

^
There's not going to be anybody that thinks Mike Trout is a better hitter than Cabrera, so you should have no worries there. Mike Trout's value to his team and his case is based upon his much greater WAR value which comes from his defensive value plus his stolen base value, plus using up less financial resources meant that the team was able to get nearly $20M of additional value on top of what Trout produced that Cabrera also can't compete with. Trout by himself produced a much more valuable performance than Cabrera, and the cost savings are just icing on the cake to make him a massive landslide winner. Plus Cabby hits into more DPs for more costly outs than Trout and that's a factor too (28 to 8, that's a big penalty). Trout has produced a historic high ranking value season and it's awfully bad timing to win the Triple Crown and want to also walk away with the MVP title. It's not even remotely close and to me it's insulting to the game of baseball to even act like this is a fair contest and that any consideration should go to Cabrera. That's just such a sick joke. If MLB wants to give Cabby the award, then they should redefine the award first so that it makes any sense to justify that.

That being said, I would not be the least surprised to see Cabrera win, and I would go as far as saying that I think he's even the favorite to win it!

Lionlifer · Post #134 » by **Lionlifer** » Tue Oct 9, 2012 2:23 pm

Regarding the double play statistic, while Miggy does have a higher count (MUCH higher), I think a lot of that is due to him batting third, while Trout was lead off more often than not.

Essentailly Miggy was hitting with tabel setters in place, while Trout would have the 7, 8, and 9 hitters in front of him, who likely had a much lower OBP (but I haven't looked it up). That's my theory anyways

Not question about the bases stolen, Trout is far superior, but I still think Miggy's defense is underrated. While he doesn't have great range, he didn't commit too many errors over the course of the season, and ended up with a fielding percentage of .966, while playing more games than any other qualified third baseman. But on the flip side, his DWAR was negative, and CF is regarded as a more premium position.

But this just feels like Miggy's year, back to back MVP in the D!

TSE · Post #135 » by **TSE** » Tue Oct 9, 2012 4:58 pm

Yes very valid counterpoint on the DP stats, and I do agree absolutely that Cabrera did a good job on defense at 3B, maybe not the greatest ever, but he reasonably held his own and did better than most people would have guessed. He's just a natural at this game. Heck I wish we had Castellanos at 3B right now and just stuck Miggy at 2B, why not, he can play anything if you need him to!

Manocad · Post #136 » by **Manocad** » Tue Oct 9, 2012 5:09 pm

TSE wrote: It's not even remotely close and to me it's insulting to the game of baseball to even act like this is a fair contest and that any consideration should go to Cabrera. That's just such a sick joke. If MLB wants to give Cabby the award, then they should redefine the award first so that it makes any sense to justify that.

The MVP award is given by the league, therefore the league's opinion of who the MVP is the only opinion that matters.

TSE · Post #137 » by **TSE** » Tue Oct 9, 2012 6:09 pm

Manocad wrote:
TSE wrote: It's not even remotely close and to me it's insulting to the game of baseball to even act like this is a fair contest and that any consideration should go to Cabrera. That's just such a sick joke. If MLB wants to give Cabby the award, then they should redefine the award first so that it makes any sense to justify that.

The MVP award is given by the league, therefore the league's opinion of who the MVP is the only opinion that matters.

I see. But not for me does that statement hold true, so that counterpoint isn't relevant to me. I choose to believe my opinion matters for conversation's sake, not as if I would suggest MLB should read this board and go with what I say. Either way, it's the writers that are empowered with the votes who technically decide it on behalf of the league, so that's multiple people and multiple opinions in any event. Many of those voters might also choose to hear other peoples' opinions before making their decision, and I have no verifiable way to know that none of them have any interest in my opinion so I felt I'd supply it for them or anybody interested in a debate for personal interest.

Manocad · Post #138 » by **Manocad** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:25 pm

The fact that the writers are not asking you for your opinion is proof that they're not interested in it, and like any other vote, they vote based on what THEY feel, not what you feel. Their vote is--and is supposed to be--theirs, not yours.

Your problem is that you state your opinion as fact. And it's not.

TSE · Post #139 » by **TSE** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:08 pm

I have heard many writers say many times that they listen to arguments from other people as they formulate their opinions. I as an individual am not relevant to this point, for one I don't know of any voting writers that even know who I am and not sure how or why they would know who I am and how to get in touch with me, but that's besides the point. But I don't have to be involved personally for them to be influenced by or in consideration of the opinions of others.

Manocad · Post #140 » by **Manocad** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:59 pm

But since you don't know any of the baseball writers and therefore are not in contact with any of them, you are not influencing their vote in any way, nor do you know that you even could.

My point still stands--MVP is what the voters decide it should be, not what you think it should be. Therefore whatever they decide should determine who gets the award is what the award means. Simply put, it can't be "wrong."