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I know nothing about that draft class.
Let's start studying them
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2024-nba-mock-draft/

SfBull wrote:I know nothing about that draft class.
Let's start studying them
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2024-nba-mock-draft/

On paper historically awful. As always good players will be found, but on paper there's like maybe one or two potential stars and then like 10 or so maybe decent starters and a bunch of crap shoots after that.

Knecht is gonna be free cheese on D, but man can he shoot the ball.

More Duncan, Strus or Gradey?

MrSparkle wrote:Knecht is gonna be free cheese on D, but man can he shoot the ball.

More Duncan, Strus or Gradey?

Why does he project to be a bad defender?

Knecht seems very Doug McDermotty to me, not sure I'm all that interested, plus he's already 23.

Matas Buzelis remains my dream/unlikely pick, I think he's going to be really good.

I'd still love for the Bulls to either trade back for 2 later firsts or at least pick up 1 later 1st as I think they're some quality player in the back end: DaRon Holmes, Tyler Smith, Bobi Klintman and Johnny Furphy come to mind, I'd even consider Edey with a later 1st (do NOT take him at 11, that would be a terrible mistake).

Cody Williams would be too bad either, he was an efficient shooter his first year.

Ron Holland is also intriguing and I wouldn't be upset if the Bull pick him up, I think he'll be really good too.

I'm not sure the Bulls should use their pick on a big unless it's Clingan, but he's unlikely to be available.

Dan Z wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:Knecht is gonna be free cheese on D, but man can he shoot the ball.

More Duncan, Strus or Gradey?

Why does he project to be a bad defender?

He doesn't have the quickest feet or great recovery. It doesn't look like he has great measurable either and he had low steal rates every year in DIV 1. I do think he's better defensively than people think and can be a solid team defender.

Muzbar wrote:Knecht seems very Doug McDermotty to me, not sure I'm all that interested, plus he's already 23.

Matas Buzelis remains my dream/unlikely pick, I think he's going to be really good.

I'd still love for the Bulls to either trade back for 2 later firsts or at least pick up 1 later 1st as I think they're some quality player in the back end: DaRon Holmes, Tyler Smith, Bobi Klintman and Johnny Furphy come to mind, I'd even consider Edey with a later 1st (do NOT take him at 11, that would be a terrible mistake).

Cody Williams would be too bad either, he was an efficient shooter his first year.

Ron Holland is also intriguing and I wouldn't be upset if the Bull pick him up, I think he'll be really good too.

I'm not sure the Bulls should use their pick on a big unless it's Clingan, but he's unlikely to be available.

It's fair to be concerned about Knecht's age but Knecht is a better athlete, a more well-rounded offensive player, and a better defender. Doug had 19 dunks total in his 4 seasons in college, Knecht had 29 this season. 43% of Knecht's shots at the rim were assisted on compared to 69% for McDermott his senior season.

Dan Z wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:Knecht is gonna be free cheese on D, but man can he shoot the ball.

More Duncan, Strus or Gradey?

Why does he project to be a bad defender?

I watched the scouting profile vids on him. He was routinely burned by guards in college. NBA will be worse, as he’s likely matching up with longer defenders than him.

Duncan has a 7’1 wingspan, while Knecht’s is listed around his height (6’6), which is like Strus’ (6’5 height / 6’7 wingspan). Max is also a decently athletic player (average by NBA standards?), even after the ACL.

Maybe the NBA draft measurements will reveal Dalton’s actually got a longer wingspan (does seem like it), but it’s hard to tell against NCAA competition. His athleticism is certainly below Max and maybe Duncan.

But like I said, he could shoot. McDermott seemed to rely much more on his post and midrange game. Knecht has lights-out C&S form.

Either way, it’s safer imagining him in this range of 3P role-players as opposed to a guaranteed starter/star prospect.

2weekswithpay wrote:

Dan Z wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:Knecht is gonna be free cheese on D, but man can he shoot the ball.

More Duncan, Strus or Gradey?

Why does he project to be a bad defender?

He doesn't have the quickest feet or great recovery. It doesn't look like he has great measurable either and he had low steal rates every year in DIV 1. I do think he's better defensively than people think and can be a solid team defender.

Thank you. That's fair and basically what I thought might be the case.

Not every player can be super fast or jump out of the gym, plus some of those players have their issues too (such as poor shooting).

MrSparkle wrote:

Dan Z wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:Knecht is gonna be free cheese on D, but man can he shoot the ball.

More Duncan, Strus or Gradey?

Why does he project to be a bad defender?

I watched the scouting profile vids on him. He was routinely burned by guards in college. NBA will be worse, as he’s likely matching up with longer defenders than him.

Duncan has a 7’1 wingspan, while Knecht’s is listed around his height (6’6), which is like Strus’ (6’5 height / 6’7 wingspan). Max is also a decently athletic player (average by NBA standards?), even after the ACL.

Maybe the NBA draft measurements will reveal Dalton’s actually got a longer wingspan (does seem like it), but it’s hard to tell against NCAA competition. His athleticism is certainly below Max and maybe Duncan.

But like I said, he could shoot. McDermott seemed to rely much more on his post and midrange game. Knecht has lights-out C&S form.

Either way, it’s safer imagining him in this range of 3P role-players as opposed to a guaranteed starter/star prospect.

It also depends on what you want to aim for coming out of this draft. As Duck points out (see his post in this thread) it's a strange draft and some of the upperclassmen seem to be pretty good. The Bulls aren't rebuilding, so it might be good to go for someone who can help right away (instead of spending most of their time in the G League).

But I can understand if you'd prefer a prospect who has a higher ceiling and might take time to develop.

2weekswithpay wrote:

Muzbar wrote:Knecht seems very Doug McDermotty to me, not sure I'm all that interested, plus he's already 23.

Matas Buzelis remains my dream/unlikely pick, I think he's going to be really good.

I'd still love for the Bulls to either trade back for 2 later firsts or at least pick up 1 later 1st as I think they're some quality player in the back end: DaRon Holmes, Tyler Smith, Bobi Klintman and Johnny Furphy come to mind, I'd even consider Edey with a later 1st (do NOT take him at 11, that would be a terrible mistake).

Cody Williams would be too bad either, he was an efficient shooter his first year.

Ron Holland is also intriguing and I wouldn't be upset if the Bull pick him up, I think he'll be really good too.

I'm not sure the Bulls should use their pick on a big unless it's Clingan, but he's unlikely to be available.

It's fair to be concerned about Knecht's age but Knecht is a better athlete, a more well-rounded offensive player, and a better defender. Doug had 19 dunks total in his 4 seasons in college, Knecht had 29 this season. 43% of Knecht's shots at the rim were assisted on compared to 69% for McDermott his senior season.

TBF I should have put that I see him as a richmans Doug McDermott, I have noticed he seems to be alot better athletically.

Being a better defender than McDermott isn't a high bar.

I'm probably still hurting from that McDermott draft, I wanted ANY player but him and Ai definitely didn't want the Bulls to 'trade up' for him, especially when their were better players drafted after McDermott.

I'll check out some more vids and have a bit more of a look, but I'm definitely not sold on him.

The age is my main concern though. Also the NBA is a different beast than college where he dominated guys sometimes 5 years younger than him.

But I'll give him another look.

Knecht is a significantly worse shooting prospect than Doug.

He strikes me as a solid contributor but I don't see the ceiling (unless his shooting explodes somehow).

Strus is a good comp. Maybe rich man's version (although Strus is a very solid defender).

Muzbar wrote:

2weekswithpay wrote:

Muzbar wrote:Knecht seems very Doug McDermotty to me, not sure I'm all that interested, plus he's already 23.

Matas Buzelis remains my dream/unlikely pick, I think he's going to be really good.

I'd still love for the Bulls to either trade back for 2 later firsts or at least pick up 1 later 1st as I think they're some quality player in the back end: DaRon Holmes, Tyler Smith, Bobi Klintman and Johnny Furphy come to mind, I'd even consider Edey with a later 1st (do NOT take him at 11, that would be a terrible mistake).

Cody Williams would be too bad either, he was an efficient shooter his first year.

Ron Holland is also intriguing and I wouldn't be upset if the Bull pick him up, I think he'll be really good too.

I'm not sure the Bulls should use their pick on a big unless it's Clingan, but he's unlikely to be available.

It's fair to be concerned about Knecht's age but Knecht is a better athlete, a more well-rounded offensive player, and a better defender. Doug had 19 dunks total in his 4 seasons in college, Knecht had 29 this season. 43% of Knecht's shots at the rim were assisted on compared to 69% for McDermott his senior season.

TBF I should have put that I see him as a richmans Doug McDermott, I have noticed he seems to be alot better athletically.

Being a better defender than McDermott isn't a high bar.

I'm probably still hurting from that McDermott draft, I wanted ANY player but him and Ai definitely didn't want the Bulls to 'trade up' for him, especially when their were better players drafted after McDermott.

I'll check out some more vids and have a bit more of a look, but I'm definitely not sold on him.

The age is my main concern though. Also the NBA is a different beast than college where he dominated guys sometimes 5 years younger than him.

But I'll give him another look.

I've compared him to a bigger more athletic Grayson Allen with worse shooting. Not the greatest pick but Allen has had a nice career and while he isn't a good defender, he's good enough to be playable in the playoffs. McDermott can't guard anybody and can't dribble.

madvillian wrote:

SfBull wrote:I know nothing about that draft class.
Let's start studying them
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2024-nba-mock-draft/

On paper historically awful. As always good players will be found, but on paper there's like maybe one or two potential stars and then like 10 or so maybe decent starters and a bunch of crap shoots after that.

There are interesting prospects as always ( at least on paper).The Bulls would take Sheppard by that mock and he could be the right pick as we need more good 3-pointers.Donovan Clingan could be a great pick if we could get lucky picking top 4 in the Lottery,we need a big man who can defend better than Vuc.I'd be happy picking Stephon Castle or Cody Williams who are very interesting prospects from paper.
But my preferred pick would be Dalton Knecht who seems like a good option for replacing Zach who'll likely
be gone before the beginning of the next season.
There will be time for watching videos from these guys bringing more information about them.

TheSuzerain wrote:Knecht is a significantly worse shooting prospect than Doug.

He strikes me as a solid contributor but I don't see the ceiling (unless his shooting explodes somehow).

Significantly worse? That's fairly exaggerated comparing guys who went 2.6/6.5 vs. 2.7/6.1.

Also the college stats skew a whole lot more. 10 years is a quite a lot of time difference, as NCAA and NBA both evolved quite a bit away from classic post play (sagging on 3P defense) and now essentially stress 3P defense more than ever. McDermott put up a lot more volume than that era's average, and was a rather different player (high usage mid/high-post pseudo-PF in college). The way it translates to NBA is somewhat unpredictable. 46% Stauskas was a NBA-nobody while 38% Duncan became a NBA finals starter.

I also think Thibs kinda killed Doug's mojo by icing him too hard. I was pro-Thibs, but I do think his decision to deep bench the 3P defensive-sieves wasn't the best (Korver included). But one thing that prominently comes to mind, is that Doug seemed completely clueless how to make himself useful off the ball. It seemed like catch-and-shoot/Redick/Korver/Dunleavy style sets were completely foreign to him. I don't get that vibe from Knecht.

But I'm also not rooting for a Knecht pick. I'm not a scout nor an avid college basketball watcher. I hope AK does look at 3P shooting more than he has in his last few drafts, though. Ja'Kobe and Knecht appeal to me more than another Dalen Terry. Even Pat- the low volume and slow release kinda ruin his smooth stroke.

MrSparkle wrote:

TheSuzerain wrote:Knecht is a significantly worse shooting prospect than Doug.

He strikes me as a solid contributor but I don't see the ceiling (unless his shooting explodes somehow).

Significantly worse? That's fairly exaggerated comparing guys who went 2.6/6.5 vs. 2.7/6.1.

Also the college stats skew a whole lot more. 10 years is a quite a lot of time difference, as NCAA and NBA both evolved quite a bit away from classic post play (sagging on 3P defense) and now essentially stress 3P defense more than ever. McDermott put up a lot more volume than that era's average, and was a rather different player (high usage mid/high-post pseudo-PF in college). The way it translates to NBA is somewhat unpredictable. 46% Stauskas was a NBA-nobody while 38% Duncan became a NBA finals starter.

I also think Thibs kinda killed Doug's mojo by icing him too hard. I was pro-Thibs, but I do think his adversity to playing the 3P defensive-sieve wasn't the best decision (Korver included). But one thing that prominently comes to mind, is that Doug seemed completely clueless how to make himself useful off the ball. It seemed like catch-and-shoot/Redick/Korver/Dunleavy style sets were completely foreign to him. I don't get that vibe from Knecht.

But I'm also not rooting for a Knecht pick. I'm not a scout nor an avid college basketball watcher. I hope AK does look at 3P shooting more than he has in his last few drafts, though. Ja'Kobe and Knecht appeal to me more than another Dalen Terry.

Not an exaggeration. Doug was at 45% from 3 for his career and more importantly was at 87% from the line on huge volume as a junior/senior. Bright green shooting profile.

Knecht had zero seasons over 40% (his volume was good though). More worryingly, he's been steady at 77% from the line. Not great for the archetype.

I think he's a good shooting prospect. Doug was a great one (and has proved that out in the NBA).

TheSuzerain wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:

TheSuzerain wrote:Knecht is a significantly worse shooting prospect than Doug.

He strikes me as a solid contributor but I don't see the ceiling (unless his shooting explodes somehow).

Significantly worse? That's fairly exaggerated comparing guys who went 2.6/6.5 vs. 2.7/6.1.

Also the college stats skew a whole lot more. 10 years is a quite a lot of time difference, as NCAA and NBA both evolved quite a bit away from classic post play (sagging on 3P defense) and now essentially stress 3P defense more than ever. McDermott put up a lot more volume than that era's average, and was a rather different player (high usage mid/high-post pseudo-PF in college). The way it translates to NBA is somewhat unpredictable. 46% Stauskas was a NBA-nobody while 38% Duncan became a NBA finals starter.

I also think Thibs kinda killed Doug's mojo by icing him too hard. I was pro-Thibs, but I do think his adversity to playing the 3P defensive-sieve wasn't the best decision (Korver included). But one thing that prominently comes to mind, is that Doug seemed completely clueless how to make himself useful off the ball. It seemed like catch-and-shoot/Redick/Korver/Dunleavy style sets were completely foreign to him. I don't get that vibe from Knecht.

But I'm also not rooting for a Knecht pick. I'm not a scout nor an avid college basketball watcher. I hope AK does look at 3P shooting more than he has in his last few drafts, though. Ja'Kobe and Knecht appeal to me more than another Dalen Terry.

Not an exaggeration. Doug was at 45% from 3 for his career and more importantly was at 87% from the line on huge volume as a junior/senior. Bright green shooting profile.

Knecht had zero seasons over 40% (his volume was good though). More worryingly, he's been steady at 77% from the line. Not great for the archetype.

I think he's a good shooting prospect. Doug was a great one (and has proved that out in the NBA).

I agree with all that and I still like Knecht to the Bulls in this draft. In addition to the data, he’s a gamer. That matters too.

My limited knowledge of draft classes and prospects basically come from this forum.

All I want to know is are there any defensive athletic big men in this draft and if so do they fall anywhere near our draft range?

My main thing I like about Knecht is the fact that announcers can say "Knecht connects!"