How Bad are AKME?

[SfBull]

D+ should have kept Lauri and Gafford and not trade for Vuc. Caruso signing was the only good thing they did

Lauri stagnated here and wasn't worth the contract he wanted at the time. Absolutely worth it now but this is hindsight.

Also Gafford is as meh as it gets.

Gafford is on a lot of teams radar right now because of his defense and efficiency.

Gafford would be very helpful for us

[kodo]

I voted D. Right now the only thing I think they’re good at is finding really great role players at a good price (AC, Drummond, Craig, Ayo, Carter at least on paper). That’d be a great skill if we had a real big three.

If Lonzo remained healthy, they likely are in the B territory assuming we continued the success we were having. No excuse for not having a backup plan after Lonzo went down though.

I do think they had a good backup plan and that was Caruso. He's used the same way on defense, and the same way on offense minus the playmaking. And AC has been a home run as a Lonzo backup plan, he's a high quality starter in his own right and easily the most valuable asset AKME has acquired since coming here.

[kodo]

But do we think ownership won't let him rebuild? If so, does that change your vote?

Talent evaluation is still poor, even if ownership has taken rebuilding off the table. Markkanen was such a massive miss. Most of the fans also wanted him gone, but no points for just doing what fans want, AKME get paid to be smarter. Before they benched him, his season in Chicago in the starting lineup per 36 was 21 ppg & 7 rpg, on 39% 3P shooting at age 23.

Per 36

Code: Select all

Lauri Markk (2021): 21 pp36 7 rp36  39% 3P  61% TS
Franz Wagne (2024): 22 pp36 6 rp36  31% 3P  56% TS
Scot Barnes (2024): 21 pp36 6 rp36  36% 3P  57% TS
Chet Holmgr (2024): 20 pp36 9 rp36  37% 3P  62% TS

Lauri in '21 or any of these forwards today are simply not youngsters you ditch off the team to save a slightly above MLE salary, which is what Joe Harris got. Coby White is averaging 19 ppg on 39% 3P per 36 minutes at the same age. If someone said we need to trade White because he's terrible, they would be called crazy.

And to add to the mismanagement, Lauri had been complaining all season that Boylen was a bad coach and using him completely incorrectly. His former coaches & trainers were telling the Bulls he was being used incorrectly. They had all the information they needed to keep Lauri on a low contract.

Patrick was a huge miss. Even if the plan was to compete back then so they were looking for a 3&D roleplayer, then trade the #4 pick. There's plenty of Patrick debate no need to go over that again.

Terry was a waste of mid round pick. He moves his feet well, has a lot of length, completely raw on offense. You can get that in the 2nd round, eg Ayo Julian Phillips. I don't see either Ayo or Phillips as worse youngsters than Terry.

Team construction has been poor, with no power forwards on the roster, no shotblockers, no lob threats. The fact that league min Andre Drummond is our best big man is a sad comment on our size situation. It's directly led to Billy having to overhelp on everything, and we've been 29th in 3P defense for 2 seasons now.

Even in the context of "win now," they're still a D for me. And I did not ding them for the lonzo injury, which I think is fair to say the severity was unpredictable and they had a great backup in Caruso already signed.

[Guru]

My grade would drop to a B if they don't trade Lavine before the deadline. He doesn't fit the culture they are creating and it's a hindrance to the growth of what they have built.

[GoBlue72391]

I gave them an A.

They are absolute masters of signing quality complimentary pieces at good contracts. Caruso-Drummond-Carter-Craig
They have been adequate at drafting at the least. It's still incomplete but Ayo was a great pick, Williams-Terry and Phillips have all shown promise and are well worth the patience we gave Coby.
They took a mess of a team and built a contender that was only derailed due to a freak injury.
They then added a veteran in Beverly who got them back to winning at a similar pace.
They then are on the same winning pace with a lineup that has been messy due to injuries and a malcontent star.

Sports are supposed to be fun. This team is fun. The next two weeks should be fun. They have a bunch of players other teams want.
They are trying to trade LaVine and likely will. Most people will complain about the return.

1 White-Ayo-Carter
2 Caruso-Ayo
3 DDR-Terry
4 PAW-Craig-Phillips
5 Vuc-Drummond

Can turn into
1 White-Ayo
2 Caruso-Ayo
3 PAW-Terry
4 Salaun/Filipkowski-Phillips
5 Claxton-Stewart

Thats a fun team. We are headed in the right direction. I want trades as much as anyone but not just to trade.

This is some high quality trolling and/or shilling.

[GoBlue72391]

My grade would drop to a B if they don't trade Lavine before the deadline. He doesn't fit the culture they are creating and it's a hindrance to the growth of what they have built.

And what is it exactly that they've "built"?

[Guru]

My grade would drop to a B if they don't trade Lavine before the deadline. He doesn't fit the culture they are creating and it's a hindrance to the growth of what they have built.

And what is it exactly that they've "built"?

A team that has won 60% of their games in the last few months.

[Guru]

I gave them an A.

They are absolute masters of signing quality complimentary pieces at good contracts. Caruso-Drummond-Carter-Craig
They have been adequate at drafting at the least. It's still incomplete but Ayo was a great pick, Williams-Terry and Phillips have all shown promise and are well worth the patience we gave Coby.
They took a mess of a team and built a contender that was only derailed due to a freak injury.
They then added a veteran in Beverly who got them back to winning at a similar pace.
They then are on the same winning pace with a lineup that has been messy due to injuries and a malcontent star.

Sports are supposed to be fun. This team is fun. The next two weeks should be fun. They have a bunch of players other teams want.
They are trying to trade LaVine and likely will. Most people will complain about the return.

1 White-Ayo-Carter
2 Caruso-Ayo
3 DDR-Terry
4 PAW-Craig-Phillips
5 Vuc-Drummond

Can turn into
1 White-Ayo
2 Caruso-Ayo
3 PAW-Terry
4 Salaun/Filipkowski-Phillips
5 Claxton-Stewart

Thats a fun team. We are headed in the right direction. I want trades as much as anyone but not just to trade.

This is some high quality trolling and/or shilling.

Nah Bruv, Just logic and straight truth

[Michael Jackson]

But do we think ownership won't let him rebuild? If so, does that change your vote?

Talent evaluation is still poor, even if ownership has taken rebuilding off the table. Markkanen was such a massive miss. Most of the fans also wanted him gone, but no points for just doing what fans want, AKME get paid to be smarter. Before they benched him, his season in Chicago in the starting lineup per 36 was 21 ppg & 7 rpg, on 39% 3P shooting at age 23.

Per 36

Code: Select all

Lauri Markk (2021): 21 pp36 7 rp36  39% 3P  61% TS
Franz Wagne (2024): 22 pp36 6 rp36  31% 3P  56% TS
Scot Barnes (2024): 21 pp36 6 rp36  36% 3P  57% TS
Chet Holmgr (2024): 20 pp36 9 rp36  37% 3P  62% TS

Lauri in '21 or any of these forwards today are simply not youngsters you ditch off the team to save a slightly above MLE salary, which is what Joe Harris got. Coby White is averaging 19 ppg on 39% 3P per 36 minutes at the same age. If someone said we need to trade White because he's terrible, they would be called crazy.

And to add to the mismanagement, Lauri had been complaining all season that Boylen was a bad coach and using him completely incorrectly. His former coaches & trainers were telling the Bulls he was being used incorrectly. They had all the information they needed to keep Lauri on a low contract.

Patrick was a huge miss. Even if the plan was to compete back then so they were looking for a 3&D roleplayer, then trade the #4 pick. There's plenty of Patrick debate no need to go over that again.

Terry was a waste of mid round pick. He moves his feet well, has a lot of length, completely raw on offense. You can get that in the 2nd round, eg Ayo Julian Phillips. I don't see either Ayo or Phillips as worse youngsters than Terry.

Team construction has been poor, with no power forwards on the roster, no shotblockers, no lob threats. The fact that league min Andre Drummond is our best big man is a sad comment on our size situation. It's directly led to Billy having to overhelp on everything, and we've been 29th in 3P defense for 2 seasons now.

Even in the context of "win now," they're still a D for me. And I did not ding them for the lonzo injury, which I think is fair to say the severity was unpredictable and they had a great backup in Caruso already signed.

I agree with all of this, the only thing is that that #4 pick was untradeable that year. GS was dying to move the #2 and they just got laughed at. AKME didn't want to pick that high. It was just not an attractive draft for moving picks. Even Ant at #1 didn't excite anyone. Obviously most teams weren't then excited about Hali etc...

I pretty much agree with everything and I have them at a D too.

[kernsy]

An A ? I wish I had you as my english teacher

[ChiefILL53]

I have to give them a D (which should prolly be F) simply based on refusal to admit failure. I dont hammer them for the Vooch trade. Contrary to popular belief, WCJr has not done anything of note for Orlando. Franz stings a bit, but I get what they were going for and at the time two picks is what it cost for an all-star. I was unsure about Hali due to the Iowa St thing and was expecting Deni at 4, but again I get that they saw raw potential in Pat.

My main issue with them is they refused to pivot after seeing things breakdown/fail. The bridge had already been burned with Lauri and Egghead, so I dont think there was any fixing that. Lonzo was a good signing, jurys out whether or not you could have predicted the severity of his injury. However, after the first time it was known he would miss major time and this was looking like a weird possible career ending injury, THAT was the time to pivot.

They should have traded Zach LAST off-season when there was more of a market. Should have tried to get something for Vooch before he expired, even if it was to just fill the roster out more with compatible, but worse, players. Same things goes for DeMar and I LOVE what DeMar has meant to this team. Above all, why on ZORDONS BLUE ELTAR would you give Billy Donovan a secret extension????? Looking beyond the roster construction thats been assbackwards (and their fault), Billy has shown time and again that he should not be coaching this team by way of strategy or just outright stubbornness to do things differently when something is clearly not working. That will wear out your welcome very quickly with a fanbase and the fact we STILL dont know how long the extension was for is insane. So I voted D for them, but it should really be an F if we're being honest. I have maybe watched 2 games since that Orlando IST blowout and I wont be tuning in regularly again until SOMETHING changes.

[Wingy]

Came to give another F.

Unfortunately the site wouldn’t allow it.

[ScrantonBulls]

Sure would be nice to have a shot at Hartenstein this offseason instead of being locked into Vuc. Great stuff AKME.

[SHO'NUFF]

I'm all for mods banning those who selected A or B. Maybe not a permanent ban....just a year or two.

[ThemBulls]

A's and B's? No way, must be working for the Bulls organization LOL

[Wingy]

A's and B's? No way, must be working for the Bulls organization LOL

It’s AK, Marc, Jerry, and Michael.

[kyrv]

A's and B's? No way, must be working for the Bulls organization LOL

It’s AK, Marc, Jerry, and Michael.

Well if they are earning an A, the vast vast majority of GMs get an A,+++++++++.

Again as Doug detailed, sitting on their hands would have the Bulls in a way better situation. Meaning, they have had a very strong negative impact.

Also LOLd at trying to give them a second F. :p

[othawhitemeat]

Gave them a F. After, the 1st offseason, they have been almost as bad as Gar. Pax without Gar was a B type GM but Gar is soo stupid. Somehow AK, decided to take that challenge and say hold my beer and watch this. Anything the Reinsdorf family touches, sucks. As a Cards fan, I wished the Reinsdorf fam owned majority stake in Cubs.

[MGB8]

My grade would drop to a B if they don't trade Lavine before the deadline. He doesn't fit the culture they are creating and it's a hindrance to the growth of what they have built.

And what is it exactly that they've "built"?

A team that has won 60% of their games in the last few months.

False. Sure, if you cherry pick December and January, they won “almost” 60% out of their games (17-12). But almost 60% is, by definition, not 60%. And few usually means more than 2 (months), also, and there is no 3 month stretch of that kind.

Then you break it down a bit, and the lie becomes even more apparent. 4 of those wins against Charlotte. 3 against the Spurs. 1 against Portland, 1 against Memphis. Literally, the majority of their wins (9) in that 2-month of near 60% play stretch are against the dregs of the league - schedule wins. Sure, post their bottoming out in the play in, they had a bottom-bounce run where Coby played out of his mind and DDR didn’t act like a black hole, and got a few quality wins in there (though some were luck, catching Philly without Embiid and splitting, Miami without Bam), but that seems to have faded and the Bulls returning to their sub .500 mean.

AKME has built a largely over the hill, not much hope for future, asset deprived perennial loser who is headed towards rebuilding, whether they blow it up or not.

[Wingy]

Now with Zach down and PWill’s injury sounding ominous, these dodos still won’t do **** at the deadline.

They’ll hold and try to resign DeRozan. They won’t move AC at this current peak value. Then AC will probably be the next one with some big injury.

They may move Drummond for peanuts so we can run Terry Taylor as the backup full time.

Then they’ll draft a 6’7” wing who can’t shoot in the draft.

Rinse and repeat.

The Continuity.