Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #2

[drosestruts]

I agree Ice Man - Thibs is getting everything out of this team. But it's also just a collectively great personality match between coaching and players.

For a lack of a better phrase - this team's got that dawg in them.

[dumbell78]

I think Jokic shoulda won last year, but they gave it to Embiid due to voter fatigue. My theory is this year it was a strong case that SGA shoulda won it, but the voters gave it to Jokic to make up for Embiid's win.

The two cases for SGA are -

1) Voter fatigue
2) He led a team that was greatly improved

In terms of conventional statistics, Jokic was runaway better than anybody in the league, except for pre-injury Embiid. Basically, giving SGA the award this year would be like giving Barkley the award in '93. Mike was the best player but you know, you can't give it to him forever.

My guess is that Jokic won't win another MVP Award, because the voters will move on and find a reason to give it to somebody else. But he will be the best player for a while yet.

This is exactly right. Look at any metric, advanced stat, etc. the last few years and Jokic is your MVP. This is not a debate frankly. All the stupid talking heads (looking at you Perk) that didnt want Jokic, tried their best weaving some stupid scenario to persuade others to not vote Jokic. I love Shai and thought we should have drafted him way back when, but he isn't Joker. Nobody is.

I also think that this is the last MVP Joker sees and I bet he would love nothing more than for that to happen. Talk about a guy that truly doesnt give a F.

[kulaz3000]

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[kulaz3000]

It always surprises me how short Barkley was, and yet how dominate he was as a big man. And to say that players back then weren't as athletic. There is no way that Barkley would not have dominated even now with how strong, dynamic and athletic he was. He is basically the same size as Alex, and he could get 30 and 20 on any given night. Man, he was an absolute beast.

[Bulliever2020]

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8:24

"In Chicago, we don't have the best rim protection..."

[Dan Z]

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Shaq when he missed a shot: "My jacket's too tight". haha.

I like Caruso. It's a shame that the Bulls aren't a better team because he'd be fun to watch in the playoffs.

It makes sense if they decided to trade him, but my guess is that AK has no interest in doing so.

[Jcool0]

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Shaq when he missed a shot: "My jacket's too tight". haha.

I like Caruso. It's a shame that the Bulls aren't a better team because he'd be fun to watch in the playoffs.

It makes sense if they decided to trade him, but my guess is that AK has no interest in doing so.

Makes no sense to trade him. Sending him to a contender gets you what a late 1? That does nothing for the Bulls.

[Dan Z]

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Shaq when he missed a shot: "My jacket's too tight". haha.

I like Caruso. It's a shame that the Bulls aren't a better team because he'd be fun to watch in the playoffs.

It makes sense if they decided to trade him, but my guess is that AK has no interest in doing so.

Makes no sense to trade him. Sending him to a contender gets you what a late 1? That does nothing for the Bulls.

It depends on what happens with DDR and other moves the team might make. I think it's time to move in a new direction and Caruso only has one year left on his contract. Do you think it makes sense to re-sign him to a big deal when it's time?

However, I don't think AK will actually move in a different direction. A better guess is that DDR is re-signed, Caruso stays until his contract is up, Drummond walks (due to tax reasons), and Zach is traded for something.

[2weekswithpay]

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Shaq when he missed a shot: "My jacket's too tight". haha.

I like Caruso. It's a shame that the Bulls aren't a better team because he'd be fun to watch in the playoffs.

It makes sense if they decided to trade him, but my guess is that AK has no interest in doing so.

Makes no sense to trade him. Sending him to a contender gets you what a late 1? That does nothing for the Bulls.

How does keeping Caruso benefit the Bulls? Caruso is 30, on an expiring contract, and doesn't change the direction of this team.

[Dan Z]

Derrick Jones Jr. had 19 points today and hit 3 threes. Has his shot improved overall? Shooting was my main issue with him when he was on the Bulls.

[jc23]

It always surprises me how short Barkley was, and yet how dominate he was as a big man. And to say that players back then weren't as athletic. There is no way that Barkley would not have dominated even now with how strong, dynamic and athletic he was. He is basically the same size as Alex, and he could get 30 and 20 on any given night. Man, he was an absolute beast.

I bet Horace still has nightmares of the Chuckster.

[DuckIII]

I agree Ice Man - Thibs is getting everything out of this team. But it's also just a collectively great personality match between coaching and players.

For a lack of a better phrase - this team's got that dawg in them.

Thibs certainly helps with that as well. He nurtures the dog. But the dog was born at Villanova with Jay Wright. It’s not a coincidence that three of his players are the heart and soul of the Knicks. I’ve never seen a better college coach (not recruiter) than Jay Wright. The best of the best of our era.

[DuckIII]

Derrick Jones Jr. had 19 points today and hit 3 threes. Has his shot improved overall? Shooting was my main issue with him when he was on the Bulls.

Slightly more accurate on a 33% increase in volume.

It’s almost impossible how badly AK failed at basically everything except Ayo and Coby. Watching Gafford and DJJ - role players with attributes this team desperately needs - making a significant impact in the playoffs is yet another nice kick in the tenders.

One of the funny (“funny” meaning sad) little wrinkles of this subplot is that we traded Gafford in a deal that returned Javonte Green, kept no one from that trade except Green, and then stupidly prioritized Green over DJJ which ultimately led to DJJ’s departure.

Our FO’s failure is impressive in scope and in the wide variety of ways it permeates virtually every element of team building. There are so many different ways to mismanage a basketball team and AK has aced them all.

We are witnessing historically significant incompetence in Chicago. Certainly there are worse NBA examples. But if I were to make a list based on when I really started paying attention to the front office part of the NBA in the late 90s, no doubt he’s very comfortably in the bottom 10 worst and possibly bottom 5. And he’s the current champ.

At least maybe Detroit will rid us of the ME part of equation (for whatever that is worth):

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/bulls-marc-eversley-in-running-for-pistons-job/3435486/?amp=1

[League Circles]

Derrick Jones Jr. had 19 points today and hit 3 threes. Has his shot improved overall? Shooting was my main issue with him when he was on the Bulls.

Slightly more accurate on a 33% increase in volume.

It’s almost impossible how badly AK failed at basically everything except Ayo and Coby. Watching Gafford and DJJ - role players with attributes this team desperately needs - making a significant impact in the playoffs is yet another nice kick in the tenders.

Our FO’s failure is impressive in scope. There are so many different ways to mismanage a basketball team and AK has aced them all.

At least maybe Detroit will rid us of the ME part of equation (for whatever that is worth):

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/bulls-marc-eversley-in-running-for-pistons-job/3435486/?amp=1

What has ME done wrong?

[DuckIII]

Derrick Jones Jr. had 19 points today and hit 3 threes. Has his shot improved overall? Shooting was my main issue with him when he was on the Bulls.

Slightly more accurate on a 33% increase in volume.

It’s almost impossible how badly AK failed at basically everything except Ayo and Coby. Watching Gafford and DJJ - role players with attributes this team desperately needs - making a significant impact in the playoffs is yet another nice kick in the tenders.

Our FO’s failure is impressive in scope. There are so many different ways to mismanage a basketball team and AK has aced them all.

At least maybe Detroit will rid us of the ME part of equation (for whatever that is worth):

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/bulls-marc-eversley-in-running-for-pistons-job/3435486/?amp=1

What has ME done wrong?

No clue. Agree with AK? Actually be the idea man? Not organize a bloodless coup?

All I know about ME is that last summer he defended not making major deadline moves because “we were a good
team who made the play-in and you don’t blow up a team like that.” Paraphrased, but accurate. He acknowledged that this is good enough for him, which means he sucks too.

[League Circles]

Slightly more accurate on a 33% increase in volume.

It’s almost impossible how badly AK failed at basically everything except Ayo and Coby. Watching Gafford and DJJ - role players with attributes this team desperately needs - making a significant impact in the playoffs is yet another nice kick in the tenders.

Our FO’s failure is impressive in scope. There are so many different ways to mismanage a basketball team and AK has aced them all.

At least maybe Detroit will rid us of the ME part of equation (for whatever that is worth):

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/bulls-marc-eversley-in-running-for-pistons-job/3435486/?amp=1

What has ME done wrong?

No clue. Agree with AK? Actually be the idea man? Not organize a bloodless coup?

All I know about ME is that last summer he defended not making major deadline moves because “we were a good
team who made the play-in and you don’t blow up a team like that.” Paraphrased, but accurate. He acknowledged that this is good enough for him, which means he sucks too.

Oh, I thought it was understood that he's a face-type to deal with relationships with the media, agents, players, etc. I don't think there's ever been any reason to believe that he's on the same page (or in disagreement) with AK on roster moves, but obviously even if he was in disagreement he wouldn't let the media know.

I don't think he can be assessed at all until and unless he does something actively bad, like say something offensive about a desirable player or whatever. I always felt the same way about Gar. Paxson was always the one I held 100% accountable for the roster.

[drosestruts]

I was, and am, a big DJJ fan. But it's not always as easy as seeing his stats now and saying "he could have done that here"

Playing alongside MUCH better players like Luka and Kyrie is certainly a contributing factor to his better play.

I think a larger issue in Chicago has been entitlement minutes and lack of competition at spots.

DJJ and Green were both better options at the 4 over Pat, yet Pat got the starting nod and bulk of the minutes.

Ayo also has been given entitlement minutes. Once Lonzo got hurt Ayo was made the starter. The next season we started the year with Ayo starting and kept that going for far too long - he was really bad in year 2.

The Bulls best stretch of the 2022-23 season was when they finally benched Ayo and Pat and instead started Beverley and Caruso and it was no coincidence that playing actual NBA talent helped.

Then there's the center spot. Vuc sucks, no slump or stretch of bad play has had any affect on his minutes in years, and the best competition we've given him is Andre Drummond, who has plenty of his own flaws.

[Bullflip]

I mean DJJ and Gafford are playing with elite players like Luka and Kyrie. We dont have those type of players on the Bulls

[DuckIII]

I was, and am, a big DJJ fan. But it's not always as easy as seeing his stats now and saying "he could have done that here"

That’s not what is happening. He’s the same player today he was then, and what he was then was already better than Green and Pat. He was a better offensive player than Green and a significantly more versatile defender for 3s and 4s which is what we needed. And he was far more consistent and reliable than Pat.

We traded or passively discarded size, athleticism and/versatility all along the way, plus failed to prioritize shooting, to end up with an old, slow, redundant roster with no assets who can’t shoot and plays an antiquated and losing style of NBA basketball on both ends of the court.

De-prioritizing Green and Gafford are just two examples of that among many.

Will you ever concede how badly AK has butchered this franchise’s recent past, present and future?

[drosestruts]

I was, and am, a big DJJ fan. But it's not always as easy as seeing his stats now and saying "he could have done that here"

That’s not what is happening. He’s the same player today he was then, and what he was then was already better than Green and Pat. He was a better offensive player than Green and a significantly more versatile defender. And he was far more consistent and reliable than Pat.

We traded or passively discarded size, athleticism and/versatility all along the way, plus failed, to prioritize shooting, to end up with an old, slow, redundant roster with no assets who plays an antiquated and losing style of NBA basketball. De-prioritizing Green and Gafford are just two examples of that among many.

Will you ever concede how badly AK has butchered this franchise’s recent past, present and future?

I feel like my whole post was noting failures by our franchise in giving entitlement minutes to players who didn't deserve it.

You don't see Dallas playing Green over DJJ just cause he was their draft pick. No, on Dallas you earn the minutes you play.

In Chicago, that has not been the case.