Your offseason plans for the Bulls

[Chi town]

Exactly idk why we are arguing Zach vs Reaves. The whole point is Zach needs to get traded asap for the best deal possible and getting Reaves might be it.

As far as we know though the lakers before the deadline didn’t even want to trade for Zach nor did they want to give up Reaves, so all this is just talk. Maybe they change their minds now,I think they will target the bigger fish first.Zach could even end up somewhere else as well, we ll see.

Lakers don't have the assets to trade for someone better than Zach or DeMar.

This playoffs has shown teams aren't that far apart from each other and they're close to getting over the top. I think the demand for players like DeMar and Lavine will increase in the weeks to come when teams realize they have no shot for Mitchell.

If AKME do it right, they could completely fix this roster this offseason moving pieces for assets paving way to tank in 2025 and be ready to in a 2-3 years to make the playoffs.

I will be shocked if DDR gets us a pick.
Same for Zach.

[PlayerUp]

I will be shocked if DDR gets us a pick.
Same for Zach.

The price you pay for facilitating a S&T for DeMar while taking back unwanted contracts.

As I said, AKME could position themselves for the future. Based on their post season interviews, I think their intentions seem clear that they want DeMar back and they want to move on from Lavine.

[MalagaBulls]

If we could turn back time this would be my offseason plan:

Read on Twitter

[jnrjr79]

Exactly idk why we are arguing Zach vs Reaves. The whole point is Zach needs to get traded asap for the best deal possible and getting Reaves might be it.

He doesn't though.

He wants to leave. The Bulls want to trade him. He still holds a grudge against the coach that benched him. For the life of me, I do not understand the "let's just keep him" angle to this. The only way that happens is if Zach needs to play to demonstrate he's healthy and effective. If the Bulls wanted to keep Zach, they would have moved on from Billy and, IMO, not been offering DeMar extension offers.

The ship has sailed.

[League Circles]

Exactly idk why we are arguing Zach vs Reaves. The whole point is Zach needs to get traded asap for the best deal possible and getting Reaves might be it.

He doesn't though.

He wants to leave. The Bulls want to trade him. He still holds a grudge against the coach that benched him. For the life of me, I do not understand the "let's just keep him" angle to this. The only way that happens is if Zach needs to play to demonstrate he's healthy and effective. If the Bulls wanted to keep Zach, they would have moved on from Billy and, IMO, not been offering DeMar extension offers.

The ship has sailed.

Seems like you're sort of combining what you predict with what you advocate.

I think both parties want to part ways in theory, but when they see the actual opportunities out there, both will prefer Zach staying, at least into next season, possibly/probably being traded before the trade deadline next season.

The angle is simple - zach is at a low trade value point right now and is our biggest upside player right now. Trading him for a bad return might be a terrible option. All depends on specifics. It's looking to me like they might make the mistake of trading him for the sake of trading him, which has worked out very poorly for this franchise in recent years with the Rose, Butler, Niko and Lauri trades IMO.

[MrSparkle]

Exactly idk why we are arguing Zach vs Reaves. The whole point is Zach needs to get traded asap for the best deal possible and getting Reaves might be it.

He doesn't though.

He wants to leave. The Bulls want to trade him. He still holds a grudge against the coach that benched him. For the life of me, I do not understand the "let's just keep him" angle to this. The only way that happens is if Zach needs to play to demonstrate he's healthy and effective. If the Bulls wanted to keep Zach, they would have moved on from Billy and, IMO, not been offering DeMar extension offers.

The ship has sailed.

I think so too. Typically what happens in this case, a good FO IMMEDIATELY trades the talent for whatever the hell they can get (Beasley/Miami, Nurkic/Denver, cough Jimmy/Bulls, Harden/Morey, Dejounte/Pop), or they fire the coach (cough should've fired Hoiberg, Kobe/Rudy, the Suns, the Bucks, etc.), no matter how respected or how much money he's owed. Otherwise you fall into that Bradley Beal Wizards cycle, which helps nobody.

So the Bulls picked Billy, quite apparently, tried to be cute by holding out for offers, and now AK had another episode of bad luck with Zach's surgery, although this could've been avoided with more prompt action.

I do think that logically, the course of action would've been to fire Billy and try a new elite coach with the same roster if you believed in the players THAT MUCH. Since they slept on Coach Bud and whoever else got a job, now the logical course would be to S&T Demar, dump Vuc and try to rebuild Zach's value with a new coach.

But keeping the coach... Sigh... They resign the 35yo... Keep the terrible C... and probably dump Zach for something that we'll look back on in 1y and wonder WTF we were doing. I guarantee that while Zach's short-lived best days might be behind him, if he lands on a playoff team as somebody's low-cost (via trade) 3rd/4th option, he'll make the Bulls look bad rather quickly, as we scoop up some crap return. The guy did score 20-25 PPG as a baseline with a limp leg, so while I don't like his game much nor having him as a #1 option, he is just waiting to pour in buckets as somebody's #3.

[Red8911]

He doesn't though.

He wants to leave. The Bulls want to trade him. He still holds a grudge against the coach that benched him. For the life of me, I do not understand the "let's just keep him" angle to this. The only way that happens is if Zach needs to play to demonstrate he's healthy and effective. If the Bulls wanted to keep Zach, they would have moved on from Billy and, IMO, not been offering DeMar extension offers.

The ship has sailed.

Seems like you're sort of combining what you predict with what you advocate.

I think both parties want to part ways in theory, but when they see the actual opportunities out there, both will prefer Zach staying, at least into next season, possibly/probably being traded before the trade deadline next season.

The angle is simple - zach is at a low trade value point right now and is our biggest upside player right now. Trading him for a bad return might be a terrible option. All depends on specifics. It's looking to me like they might make the mistake of trading him for the sake of trading him, which has worked out very poorly for this franchise in recent years with the Rose, Butler, Niko and Lauri trades IMO.

Zach is finished in Chicago. There’s a reason AK completely ignored a question about him in the post season presser. He would have already long gone if it wasn’t for his foot injury/surgery before the trade deadline.

KC has even said that this is their off season priority. Let’s not forget that if they don’t unload Zach they will have no space to make any other moves and would be over the cap. Bulls want him out for many reasons.

[Red8911]

He doesn't though.

He wants to leave. The Bulls want to trade him. He still holds a grudge against the coach that benched him. For the life of me, I do not understand the "let's just keep him" angle to this. The only way that happens is if Zach needs to play to demonstrate he's healthy and effective. If the Bulls wanted to keep Zach, they would have moved on from Billy and, IMO, not been offering DeMar extension offers.

The ship has sailed.

I think so too. Typically what happens in this case, a good FO IMMEDIATELY trades the talent for whatever the hell they can get (Beasley/Miami, Nurkic/Denver, cough Jimmy/Bulls, Harden/Morey, Dejounte/Pop), or they fire the coach (cough should've fired Hoiberg, Kobe/Rudy, the Suns, the Bucks, etc.), no matter how respected or how much money he's owed. Otherwise you fall into that Bradley Beal Wizards cycle, which helps nobody.

So the Bulls picked Billy, quite apparently, tried to be cute by holding out for offers, and now AK had another episode of bad luck with Zach's surgery, although this could've been avoided with more prompt action.

I do think that logically, the course of action would've been to fire Billy and try a new elite coach with the same roster if you believed in the players THAT MUCH. Since they slept on Coach Bud and whoever else got a job, now the logical course would be to S&T Demar, dump Vuc and try to rebuild Zach's value with a new coach.

But keeping the coach... Sigh... They resign the 35yo... Keep the terrible C... and probably dump Zach for something that we'll look back on in 1y and wonder WTF we were doing. I guarantee that while Zach's short-lived best days might be behind him, if he lands on a playoff team as somebody's low-cost (via trade) 3rd/4th option, he'll make the Bulls look bad rather quickly, as we scoop up some crap return. The guy did score 20-25 PPG as a baseline with a limp leg, so while I don't like his game much nor having him as a #1 option, he is just waiting to pour in buckets as somebody's #3.

I agree last year they should have at least gotten another coach if they wanted to take another swing with the same roster.

You can’t keep everything the same when it didn’t really work the last couple of years. AK has made mistakes but perhaps he is probably stuck with Billy at this point, can’t fire him even if he wanted to.

[jnrjr79]

He doesn't though.

He wants to leave. The Bulls want to trade him. He still holds a grudge against the coach that benched him. For the life of me, I do not understand the "let's just keep him" angle to this. The only way that happens is if Zach needs to play to demonstrate he's healthy and effective. If the Bulls wanted to keep Zach, they would have moved on from Billy and, IMO, not been offering DeMar extension offers.

The ship has sailed.

Seems like you're sort of combining what you predict with what you advocate.

I think both parties want to part ways in theory, but when they see the actual opportunities out there, both will prefer Zach staying, at least into next season, possibly/probably being traded before the trade deadline next season.

The angle is simple - zach is at a low trade value point right now and is our biggest upside player right now. Trading him for a bad return might be a terrible option. All depends on specifics. It's looking to me like they might make the mistake of trading him for the sake of trading him, which has worked out very poorly for this franchise in recent years with the Rose, Butler, Niko and Lauri trades IMO.

This is all what I predict and none of what I advocate.

This front office isn't doing remotely what I would do. I would be moving on from both Zach and DeMar right now and trying to accumulate draft capital to build around the younger guys, because I think we've seen that this veteran group has a lower ceiling than is acceptable. I would be trying to keep this year's top-10 protected draft pick, which I think you can do by offloading the vets and handing the keys to Coby and Ayo, while helping bolster their development. At worst, the "let Coby cook" plan probably raises his trade value as well, if you decide to really tear things down, but I'd probably be more focused on a single down year to start rather than going nuclear. Keep the 2025 pick, accept taking a step back next year, get the finances in order, and try to reload for 2026.

Absent a "jettison all the vets" plan, I would be trying to sign-and-trade DeMar and to rehabilitate Zach's value, probably to trade him in the future, but with a somewhat open mind to keeping him. I'd likely be moving on from Billy as part of that plan, which would allow you to keep Zach if things worked out in a way where that made sense.

[Red8911]

Jarret Allen is apparently available for trade. Many here want a center like him who is a defensive rim protector. Any chance the Bulls make a move for him?

[League Circles]

He wants to leave. The Bulls want to trade him. He still holds a grudge against the coach that benched him. For the life of me, I do not understand the "let's just keep him" angle to this. The only way that happens is if Zach needs to play to demonstrate he's healthy and effective. If the Bulls wanted to keep Zach, they would have moved on from Billy and, IMO, not been offering DeMar extension offers.

The ship has sailed.

Seems like you're sort of combining what you predict with what you advocate.

I think both parties want to part ways in theory, but when they see the actual opportunities out there, both will prefer Zach staying, at least into next season, possibly/probably being traded before the trade deadline next season.

The angle is simple - zach is at a low trade value point right now and is our biggest upside player right now. Trading him for a bad return might be a terrible option. All depends on specifics. It's looking to me like they might make the mistake of trading him for the sake of trading him, which has worked out very poorly for this franchise in recent years with the Rose, Butler, Niko and Lauri trades IMO.

Zach is finished in Chicago. There’s a reason AK completely ignored a question about him in the post season presser. He would have already long gone if it wasn’t for his foot injury/surgery before the trade deadline.

KC has even said that this is their off season priority. Let’s not forget that if they don’t unload Zach they will have no space to make any other moves and would be over the cap. Bulls want him out for many reasons.

I'm sure it is their priority in the way that building a title team is their priority - they want it to happen but it probably won't.

Ak was already waiting for an adequate trade offer to materialize when. Zack had surgery. So he was already being shopped but not traded when he got injured. What do we think has changed since then other than many fewer players are now available in trade (because their contracts expired)?

They can (and should) dump other players before Zach if needed to keep payroll manageable. Any or all of these guys:

Vuc
Carter
Terry
Caruso
Phillips

[jnrjr79]

Jarret Allen is apparently available for trade. Many here want a center like him who is a defensive rim protector. Any chance the Bulls make a move for him?

I generally like the idea of trying to take advantage of the Cavs' apparent need to shake things up. As to Allen, I'd be all for it, but you'd have to find a way to unload Vooch.

[MrSparkle]

Jarret Allen is apparently available for trade. Many here want a center like him who is a defensive rim protector. Any chance the Bulls make a move for him?

Missed most the playoffs with an injury, so he’d fit in!

I could see ME making the call.

[jnrjr79]

Seems like you're sort of combining what you predict with what you advocate.

I think both parties want to part ways in theory, but when they see the actual opportunities out there, both will prefer Zach staying, at least into next season, possibly/probably being traded before the trade deadline next season.

The angle is simple - zach is at a low trade value point right now and is our biggest upside player right now. Trading him for a bad return might be a terrible option. All depends on specifics. It's looking to me like they might make the mistake of trading him for the sake of trading him, which has worked out very poorly for this franchise in recent years with the Rose, Butler, Niko and Lauri trades IMO.

Zach is finished in Chicago. There’s a reason AK completely ignored a question about him in the post season presser. He would have already long gone if it wasn’t for his foot injury/surgery before the trade deadline.

KC has even said that this is their off season priority. Let’s not forget that if they don’t unload Zach they will have no space to make any other moves and would be over the cap. Bulls want him out for many reasons.

I'm sure it is their priority in the way that building a title team is their priority - they want it to happen but it probably won't.

Ak was already waiting for an adequate trade offer to materialize when. Zack had surgery. So he was already being shopped but not traded when he got injured. What do we think has changed since then other than many fewer players are now available in trade (because their contracts expired)?

They can (and should) dump other players before Zach if needed to keep payroll manageable. Any or all of these guys:

Vuc
Carter
Terry
Caruso
Phillips

The thing that has likely changed is AK's asking price. Just my guess.

[patryk7754]

Jarret Allen is apparently available for trade. Many here want a center like him who is a defensive rim protector. Any chance the Bulls make a move for him?

unlikely we can land him, but the bulls should offer Vuc for him in a straight up swap. If the cavs want to swap defense for offense, but I would think another team could offer something more valuable than Vuc.

He'll also probably be included in an offer for a star player.

[League Circles]

Zach is finished in Chicago. There’s a reason AK completely ignored a question about him in the post season presser. He would have already long gone if it wasn’t for his foot injury/surgery before the trade deadline.

KC has even said that this is their off season priority. Let’s not forget that if they don’t unload Zach they will have no space to make any other moves and would be over the cap. Bulls want him out for many reasons.

I'm sure it is their priority in the way that building a title team is their priority - they want it to happen but it probably won't.

Ak was already waiting for an adequate trade offer to materialize when. Zack had surgery. So he was already being shopped but not traded when he got injured. What do we think has changed since then other than many fewer players are now available in trade (because their contracts expired)?

They can (and should) dump other players before Zach if needed to keep payroll manageable. Any or all of these guys:

Vuc
Carter
Terry
Caruso
Phillips

The thing that has likely changed is AK's asking price. Just my guess.

Certainly could have changed. But why?

[jnrjr79]

I'm sure it is their priority in the way that building a title team is their priority - they want it to happen but it probably won't.

Ak was already waiting for an adequate trade offer to materialize when. Zack had surgery. So he was already being shopped but not traded when he got injured. What do we think has changed since then other than many fewer players are now available in trade (because their contracts expired)?

They can (and should) dump other players before Zach if needed to keep payroll manageable. Any or all of these guys:

Vuc
Carter
Terry
Caruso
Phillips

The thing that has likely changed is AK's asking price. Just my guess.

Certainly could have changed. But why?

I'm just reading the tea leaves. The fact that Zach didn't generate good offers when they initially wanted to trade them probably means they have had to reassess his value. Billy avoided talking about him in the postseason presser. If the Bulls intend to extend DeMar and sign Pat, they have a luxury tax problem on their hands. You've got some teams with cap space that could alleviate those problems by absorbing some or all of Zach's salary. AK was explicit about not going into the luxury tax unless they were a top 4 squad. We know that the rift with Billy persists and the Bulls chose to stuck with Billy. There is also just a need to do something, in AK's eyes, since he has acknowledged that this group hasn't worked and that changes are coming. KC keeps reporting that the Bulls are motivated to trade Zach this offseason as their #1 priority. If it's your #1 priority, it's reasonable to assume you're going to be willing to accept less than you were before.

Lots of stuff has been changing in recent months.

[sco]

The thing that has likely changed is AK's asking price. Just my guess.

Certainly could have changed. But why?

I'm just reading the tea leaves. The fact that Zach didn't generate good offers when they initially wanted to trade them probably means they have had to reassess his value. Billy avoided talking about him in the postseason presser. If the Bulls intend to extend DeMar and sign Pat, they have a luxury tax problem on their hands. You've got some teams with cap space that could alleviate those problems by absorbing some or all of Zach's salary. AK was explicit about not going into the luxury tax unless they were a top 4 squad. We know that the rift with Billy persists and the Bulls chose to stuck with Billy. There is also just a need to do something, in AK's eyes, since he has acknowledged that this group hasn't worked and that changes are coming. KC keeps reporting that the Bulls are motivated to trade Zach this offseason as their #1 priority. If it's your #1 priority, it's reasonable to assume you're going to be willing to accept less than you were before.

Lots of stuff has been changing in recent months.

I think you are right that they'd accept "less than you were before", but where BEFORE was likely an asset and 2 1sts and NOW is needing to add your first to Zach to trade him, I think it will be hard to sell at any price.

[jnrjr79]

Certainly could have changed. But why?

I'm just reading the tea leaves. The fact that Zach didn't generate good offers when they initially wanted to trade them probably means they have had to reassess his value. Billy avoided talking about him in the postseason presser. If the Bulls intend to extend DeMar and sign Pat, they have a luxury tax problem on their hands. You've got some teams with cap space that could alleviate those problems by absorbing some or all of Zach's salary. AK was explicit about not going into the luxury tax unless they were a top 4 squad. We know that the rift with Billy persists and the Bulls chose to stuck with Billy. There is also just a need to do something, in AK's eyes, since he has acknowledged that this group hasn't worked and that changes are coming. KC keeps reporting that the Bulls are motivated to trade Zach this offseason as their #1 priority. If it's your #1 priority, it's reasonable to assume you're going to be willing to accept less than you were before.

Lots of stuff has been changing in recent months.

I think you are right that they'd accept "less than you were before", but where BEFORE was likely an asset and 2 1sts and NOW is needing to add your first to Zach to trade him, I think it will be hard to sell at any price.

Just my guess, but I don't think Zach's value is so low that you'd have to attach assets to move him. But I agree you may get very little of value in return.

[TheJordanRule]

The AMKE & CO team might get it. They might understand that the roster they've built is much too old, that Vuce doesn't deserve to be priority #1 and must be traded instead, that doubling down on Dermar is pointless, that keeping Zach and building around him makes more sense than trading him, etc. The only problem is that everything they've done up to this point hasn't showed any indication that they get it. If you want to avoid a draft pick based strategy, fine. But doing that involves implementing a competent plan, and outside of the Lonzo X factor days, there hasn't been any indication of competence.