biggestbullsfan wrote:
Okaaaay.
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ThreeYearPlan wrote:Bulls fans defend HomoSapien more than Rose.
Dan Z wrote:Does anyone actually expect anything out of Lonzo in the upcoming season?
sco wrote:Dan Z wrote:Does anyone actually expect anything out of Lonzo in the upcoming season?
Expect is a big leap, but I hope we get a guy who slowly becomes a recognizable version of himself by the end of the season, with minutes in the low-mid teens.
MGB8 wrote:The big question isn’t whether he can get healthy enough to physically do the things he could do before on a momentary, non-extreme basis.
The question is: have his issues been corrected enough - indeed are they even really correctable rather than some function of biomechanical responses to extended wear and stress - so that as the amount of significant heavy usage on his body increases - as he ramps up - he doesn’t quickly start feeling significant pain and degeneration.
To make an analogy - a long time runner who gets some quasi degenerative issue fixed usually can go back to run after surgery and rehab. But (a) the outlier edges of what can be done tend to be decreased, and, even more (b) the ability to run extended durations, repeatedly, day after day… that is what tends to really take the hit.
Given Lonzo’s track record of “start to come back, then setback” my fear, and frankly, expectation, is that what he has isn’t really correctable. In the sense that - ok, you might be able to fix whatever miss alignment or tissue damage or whatnot that is causing the pain… but as soon as you put the stress of getting into NBA level shape and having even close to NBA level wear on the body, his body reacts in a way that creates the same or similar issue as to what was just corrected. And that while you can undo some cumulative, quasi degenerative harms in specific locations, you can’t do it everywhere.
Which is why, while there is “hope,” and it is more than a lotto ticket chance that he can come back and play at an NBA level… the odds, IMO p, are pretty heavily against him. But maybe the historical pattern has made me overly pessimistic.
Chi town wrote:I have no hope whatsoever that Lonzo will be able to come back and stay back. Dude always misses games. If he comes back he will be missing plenty of games to “recover.”
Bulliever2020 wrote:MGB8 wrote:The big question isn’t whether he can get healthy enough to physically do the things he could do before on a momentary, non-extreme basis.
The question is: have his issues been corrected enough - indeed are they even really correctable rather than some function of biomechanical responses to extended wear and stress - so that as the amount of significant heavy usage on his body increases - as he ramps up - he doesn’t quickly start feeling significant pain and degeneration.
To make an analogy - a long time runner who gets some quasi degenerative issue fixed usually can go back to run after surgery and rehab. But (a) the outlier edges of what can be done tend to be decreased, and, even more (b) the ability to run extended durations, repeatedly, day after day… that is what tends to really take the hit.
Given Lonzo’s track record of “start to come back, then setback” my fear, and frankly, expectation, is that what he has isn’t really correctable. In the sense that - ok, you might be able to fix whatever miss alignment or tissue damage or whatnot that is causing the pain… but as soon as you put the stress of getting into NBA level shape and having even close to NBA level wear on the body, his body reacts in a way that creates the same or similar issue as to what was just corrected. And that while you can undo some cumulative, quasi degenerative harms in specific locations, you can’t do it everywhere.
Which is why, while there is “hope,” and it is more than a lotto ticket chance that he can come back and play at an NBA level… the odds, IMO p, are pretty heavily against him. But maybe the historical pattern has made me overly pessimistic.
I think this is the major thing people are missing when these workout videos are posted and people start to get all excited. The chasm between going 1/4 speed during a workout or being able to dunk one single time to being able to play 82 games at a full speed NBA level are so huge it's like the Grand Canyon.
khufure wrote:Keep in mind what his surgery(ies) actually were:
- 2018 meniscus tear && removal (left knee)
- 2022 meniscus tear (left knee)
- 2023 cartilage transplant (left knee)
3 surgeries on the same knee. IMO the long-term outlook is bad. As explained by a doctor ,
there are nuances involved but we can guess the meniscus issues probably lead to the cartilage replacement. And IMO is likely to again. The upper part of the knee is like a U laying on the bottom part which is flat. The meniscus helps to stabilize impact on the knee by providing a larger area to spread impact. And basketball players have a lot of impact from constantly jumping and landing.
Science has gotten better at replacing tendons and ligaments. Meniscus replacement is available but I haven't heard of many nba players opting for that. I looked but didn't find if Lonzo got a meniscus replacement in addition to cartilage replacement. I guess bottom line -- who knows? I wish him success and health but I'm a doubter.
ChettheJet wrote:
I amazed that so many orthopedic surgeons post here even you seem incompetent to make diagnoses having never seen a patient. Hilarious that people so uninformed know so much about the Ball family.
Rainwater wrote:khufure wrote:Keep in mind what his surgery(ies) actually were:
- 2018 meniscus tear && removal (left knee)
- 2022 meniscus tear (left knee)
- 2023 cartilage transplant (left knee)
3 surgeries on the same knee. IMO the long-term outlook is bad. As explained by a doctor ,
there are nuances involved but we can guess the meniscus issues probably lead to the cartilage replacement. And IMO is likely to again. The upper part of the knee is like a U laying on the bottom part which is flat. The meniscus helps to stabilize impact on the knee by providing a larger area to spread impact. And basketball players have a lot of impact from constantly jumping and landing.
Science has gotten better at replacing tendons and ligaments. Meniscus replacement is available but I haven't heard of many nba players opting for that. I looked but didn't find if Lonzo got a meniscus replacement in addition to cartilage replacement. I guess bottom line -- who knows? I wish him success and health but I'm a doubter.
This post is very inaccurate. I have watched this video 100 times since it came out and nowhere in the video did the doctor say the "the long-term outlook is bad". The most you can get from the video is "I don't know". Honestly, there is plenty of information in this video for one to prove their bias depending how they feel on the Lonzo situation.
And in regard to if the meniscus played a role in the cartilage replacement, the doctor literally said we will never know. For all we know the initial meniscus damage may have caused the cartilage defect. And both the meniscus and cartilage surgeries may fix everything. And there have been many players who have had the meniscus surgery and don't have cartilage damage. Hell, I have the cartilage defect but never had the meniscus issue and my doctor told me it was likely wear and tear. Unless you are Lonzo's doctor no one has a clue what caused what.