How Bad are AKME?

[dougthonus]

Continuity is also an inconsistent virtue for a veteran team. We saw how being together for a while helped the Heatles to jell. On the other hand, the Lakers won the first year they combined AD with LeBron, the Raps won immediately after getting Kawhi, and our "Big Three" unit was never more successful than during the first 60 games that they were assembled (25 of which did not involve Lonzo).

So yeah, just keeping players together doesn't necessarily mean that the group will improve, by learning each other's games.

Continuity probably loses all of its value by the end of the 2nd season.

People often mistake growth for continuity though. Denver didn't become great due to continuity. They became great because Murray and Jokic grew and were finally healthy at the right time and they filled in the right pieces. They recognized they had elite talent and stuck with it. That's not the power of continuity. That's the power of having elite talent for lots of reps and eventually things come together.

We don't have elite talent. If you stick with this team long enough, you will see some variance, but the variance is within the 30-50 win range, not the 45-65 win range. We don't have the benefit of time, the guys we're keeping together aren't in their early 20s and progressively getting better and more likely to remain healthier.

[MrSparkle]

Continuity is also an inconsistent virtue for a veteran team. We saw how being together for a while helped the Heatles to jell. On the other hand, the Lakers won the first year they combined AD with LeBron, the Raps won immediately after getting Kawhi, and our "Big Three" unit was never more successful than during the first 60 games that they were assembled (25 of which did not involve Lonzo).

So yeah, just keeping players together doesn't necessarily mean that the group will improve, by learning each other's games.

Continuity probably loses all of its value by the end of the 2nd season.

People often mistake growth for continuity though. Denver didn't become great due to continuity. They became great because Murray and Jokic grew and were finally healthy at the right time and they filled in the right pieces. They recognized they had elite talent and stuck with it. That's not the power of continuity. That's the power of having elite talent for lots of reps and eventually things come together.

We don't have elite talent. If you stick with this team long enough, you will see some variance, but the variance is within the 30-50 win range, not the 45-65 win range. We don't have the benefit of time, the guys we're keeping together aren't in their early 20s and progressively getting better and more likely to remain healthier.

Well, and as per the theory of waiting it out... more disturbing was that Zach/Vuc/Demar, the "big" 3 were healthy for most of 3-year tenure, minus the end, where it was decided Zach & Bulls are better off without each other.

It's an exceptionally rare thing when your "3 best players" can't average a plus-rating in a gigantic sample size. It was time to run from the concept after the Bucks series, not time to tweak it. When Kawhi or George could both make it to a game on 1 half-working leg, they kept elevating the Clippers from a low-seed to a contender. They didn't get any continuity. Their chemistry was bad in 2020 and it's bad today. But overall, the roster's talent is so much better than ours (even without them), when you particularly have Kawhi active, they can almost beat anybody (without having an identity). And despite being much better than the Bulls, I'd still have a hard time running back that Clippers team every year (though they don't have a choice, though they could've entertained trades when their values were higher, and not gone for Harden).

[Ice Man]

People often mistake growth for continuity though. Denver didn't become great due to continuity. They became great because Murray and Jokic grew and were finally healthy at the right time and they filled in the right pieces. They recognized they had elite talent and stuck with it. That's not the power of continuity. That's the power of having elite talent for lots of reps and eventually things come together.

As with early Golden State.

Once again, it boils down to talent. Continuity is fine, getting the best coach is fine, getting the right role players and fit is fine, but what really matters for developing teams is having young Curry and young Ant, rather than (say) young Monta Ellis and young Andrew Wiggins.

I don't normally advocate radical changes to teams, but until we have at least one young player whom I believe can become even a lesser version of guys like Curry and Ant, I am in favor of the Bulls attempting anything and everything, so as to get that one player. Trade the entire roster, if that's what it takes.

[Bulldog23]

Not a fan of this management group. Don't see long term winning with this group.

[prolific passer]

Not a fan of this management group. Don't see long term winning with this group.

Agree. The passing up on retooling the roster is what hurt them.

[ChiTownHero1992]

Not a fan of this management group. Don't see long term winning with this group.

Agree. The passing up on retooling the roster is what hurt them.

Absolute long shot thoughts...but part of me wonders if when they were brought in they were given "a short leash". After GarPax were given like 42 rebuilds in their time here, makes me wonder if Jerry or whomever said you get 1 team, figure it out first try or your gone and that is why they haven't committed to a "rebuild" or "retool" in hopes that this first try still works out haha, it is highly doubtful but it just makes me think since GarPax were given multiple tries in short periods of time, why wont AKME even consider it?

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[jnrjr79]

Read on Twitter

I wonder what affect this would have on a potential Zach trade.

[MrSparkle]

Read on Twitter

I wonder what affect this would have on a potential Zach trade.

Arturas gives Marc a call...

Marc checks phone...

[lostonbase]

Why the heck would the Pistons want an executive from the Bulls? Good gravy, don't you want to hire guys that are successful?

[Chicagoat]

I remember that Marc Eversley was the main reason we were able to sign all of those free agents that one summer. He's a former Nike Exec and has good people skills unlike AK. So, maybe that's the reason the Pistons want him. I remember there was a report that the front office was split on wanting a rebuild and people speculated that Eversley wanted to rebuild while AK wanted to continue to "compete".

It's just speculation but most of the Bull's problem lie with AK since he has the highest authority in the front office. It wouldn't take a lot to improve the pistons, just need someone new to make tough choices.

[prolific passer]

Not a fan of this management group. Don't see long term winning with this group.

Agree. The passing up on retooling the roster is what hurt them.

Absolute long shot thoughts...but part of me wonders if when they were brought in they were given "a short leash". After GarPax were given like 42 rebuilds in their time here, makes me wonder if Jerry or whomever said you get 1 team, figure it out first try or your gone and that is why they haven't committed to a "rebuild" or "retool" in hopes that this first try still works out haha, it is highly doubtful but it just makes me think since GarPax were given multiple tries in short periods of time, why wont AKME even consider it?

Akme or ak in general just want to be the smartest persons in the room and prove that their strategy is a winning one even though the results say otherwise.

[kyrv]

I remember that Marc Eversley was the main reason we were able to sign all of those free agents that one summer. He's a former Nike Exec and has good people skills unlike AK. So, maybe that's the reason the Pistons want him. I remember there was a report that the front office was split on wanting a rebuild and people speculated that Eversley wanted to rebuild while AK wanted to continue to "compete".

It's just speculation but most of the Bull's problem lie with AK since he has the highest authority in the front office. It wouldn't take a lot to improve the pistons, just need someone new to make tough choices.

Sounds like you are saying Bulls FO will be worse and less effective.

Good times...

[Chi town]

I hope ME goes to Pistons.

AK won’t be able to hide.

[Stratmaster]

Continuity is also an inconsistent virtue for a veteran team. We saw how being together for a while helped the Heatles to jell. On the other hand, the Lakers won the first year they combined AD with LeBron, the Raps won immediately after getting Kawhi, and our "Big Three" unit was never more successful than during the first 60 games that they were assembled (25 of which did not involve Lonzo).

So yeah, just keeping players together doesn't necessarily mean that the group will improve, by learning each other's games.

Continuity probably loses all of its value by the end of the 2nd season.

People often mistake growth for continuity though. Denver didn't become great due to continuity. They became great because Murray and Jokic grew and were finally healthy at the right time and they filled in the right pieces. They recognized they had elite talent and stuck with it. That's not the power of continuity. That's the power of having elite talent for lots of reps and eventually things come together.

We don't have elite talent. If you stick with this team long enough, you will see some variance, but the variance is within the 30-50 win range, not the 45-65 win range. We don't have the benefit of time, the guys we're keeping together aren't in their early 20s and progressively getting better and more likely to remain healthier.

I think you nailed it with the elite talent part. Of course continuity can help; even long term. But only if the people involved have the talent and consistent success. Continuity with a weak group of people who have never experienced real success together isn't going to gain you anything, whether in sports or any other venture.